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The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast

566. The Meaning Of: There’s No Such Thing as a Dragon

The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast

DailyWire+

Education, Science, Society & Culture

4.634.5K Ratings

🗓️ 28 July 2025

⏱️ 40 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

In Answer the Call, Dr. Jordan B. Peterson returns to his roots, taking real calls from real people facing life’s hardest questions. Joined by his daughter, Mikhaila Fuller, the series transforms personal struggles into public insight—offering wisdom, empathy, and clarity in the face of chaos. Coming to DailyWire+ Monday, 8/4. A new podcast series, featured within Dr. Jordan B. Peterson’s episodes on YouTube and including an exclusive member segment on DailyWire+.   Have a question you’d like to ask? Share your story here: dailywire.com/answerthecall   What happens when you ignore a dragon? Dr. Jordan B. Peterson reads and analyzes “There’s No Such Thing as a Dragon” by Jack Kent, exploring its psychological and mythological depth. Using the children’s story as a springboard, Peterson unpacks themes of willful blindness, familial dysfunction, and the archetypal hero’s journey. He draws connections to ancient Egyptian mythology, the Exodus narrative, and the crucifixion of Christ—arguing that dragons—both literal and symbolic—grow when we refuse to confront them. If you’ve ever wondered what a kid’s book has to do with the fate of your household, your children, or your soul—this is the lecture for you.   This episode was filmed on June 28th, 2025 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

So recently I recorded some analysis of children's stories once again.

0:06.0

I had done this years ago with Pinocchio and the Lion King.

0:11.0

That was part and parcel of the lectures that I did at Harvard and at the University of Toronto.

0:17.0

More recently I recorded an analysis of Snow White, the Grimm's Brother version, and also of Hansel and Gretel.

0:24.6

I'm going to continue that today with a more recent book, a much more recent book called There's No Such Thing as a Dragon, The Story and Pictures by Jack Kent.

0:35.6

I used to read this to my Maps of Meaning class often as the first lecture,

0:41.8

because it touches on themes that are very relevant to a narrative understanding of the world.

0:50.1

A description of the structure through which we see the world is a story.

0:55.0

And the motifs in stories represent cardinal elements of all of the environments that we encounter.

1:05.0

And I'll try to make that clear today in the discussion of there's no such thing as a dragon. I want to show you a dragon that I have

1:15.1

in my office here. This is a sculpture from Mexico, which I got several years ago, um, um, it's a circle, basically, and it has a, the head of a bird, kind of a monstrous bird,

1:37.2

and it has wings like a dragon or like a bird, and it has a snake wrapped around the bird's neck,

1:43.0

but it's an analog of a dragon.

1:46.9

There's a book that I found very useful in my analysis of such things

1:51.8

called An Instinct for Dragons by a man named David E. Jones,

1:56.9

and David Jones offers essentially an evolutionary explanation for the concept of dragon.

2:05.0

He described a dragon as a tree, cat, snake bird, like an amalgam of the features of tree, cat, snake bird.

2:13.8

And those, and of course, there's the element of fire as well.

2:19.3

And so those are all elements of predator, you might say.

2:25.0

The kind of predators that have been preying on us or our evolutionary ancestors for millions of years.

2:38.3

We had tree-dwelling ancestors 60 million years ago.

2:46.0

And so the dragon is an amalgam of the motifs of predator. That's a good way of thinking about it, or of danger. And the dragon battle is a narrative condensation of the drama of human beings. The fact that we have to

...

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