Hey, crawl space listeners, we're digging back into the archive and pulling out an episode from almost three years ago.

It's a really entertaining episode with Matt Cox, and we think you'll really enjoy it. Welcome to Crawl Space. I'm Tim here today with Lance. Lance, how are you today?

I'm doing fantastic today, Tim, because I'm excited to have our listeners experience the guests that we have on today.

It's a fascinating person, makes your laugh, makes you just shake your head in disbelief.

And Tim, I am shaking my head in disbelief because you haven't told me how you're doing today.

Thanks a lot for asking, Lance. I am doing great. I am really excited about our recent couple of

conversations with Matt Cox of Inside True Crime.

One of those conversations was here, and we're going to play it in just a moment.

We had a lot of fun talking to Matt about his life, his history in crime, in actually

committing fraud and being incarcerated for 13 years.

And then, Lance, we also spoke with Matt on his show called Inside True Crime. And you can find

that at YouTube.com slash inside true crime or you can just go to inside truecrime.com.

And something that makes this conversation very unique is that Matt ultimately takes full

responsibility for the crimes that he committed as a mortgage broker. It was bank fraud and

mortgage fraud and he borrowed millions of dollars. He was caught. His prison sentence was 26 years,

which he did 13 years of. He takes full responsibility for it, says if he had the opportunity to go

back and do it all again, he was like, of course I wouldn't. It makes no sense why I would do it

again. But he loves talking about it. And he does it in such as animated way that you can't help but just find him endearing. Because he's done his time and he's essentially paid his debt to society. He tells his story, but he also has people come on his show to tell their story. And it is educational. And he's written a bunch of books. He took the

stories of the people that he was incarcerated with, sat down with them, had them tell him their

stories so he could write the book as a way to advise people on the less glamorous side of being a

criminal. He reminds me of that movie, Catch Me If You Can, Lance, and the character Frank Abagnale,

where he could kind of like figure out any situation and the FBI had no choice but to like

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