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Freakonomics Radio

563. How to Succeed at Failing, Part 3: Grit vs. Quit

Freakonomics Radio

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Documentary, Society & Culture

4.632K Ratings

🗓️ 26 October 2023

⏱️ 63 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Giving up can be painful. That's why we need to talk about it. Today: stories about glitchy apps, leaky paint cans, broken sculptures — and a quest for the perfect bowl of ramen.

Transcript

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0:00.0

Hey there, it's Stephen Dubner. We've been making Frekenomics Radio for a while now, and

0:08.8

there are two themes we have come back to again and again. The first is the value of persistence,

0:14.7

of staying the course, not giving up. Our friend Angela Duckworth, a research psychologist at

0:20.3

the University of Pennsylvania, wrote a book about this. It's called Grit, the power of passion

0:25.8

and perseverance. Here she is on our sister podcast, No Stupid Questions. I think the reason why

0:31.7

there are all these aphorisms about not giving up, and maybe why so much of my research has focused

0:37.0

on the psychology of staying the course, is that sometimes the road not taken, the track that you

0:43.8

want to switch to, is appealing not because it is objectively better, but because it's objectively

0:49.5

easier just in the short run. In other words, we give up because we're lazy, or maybe impatient,

0:56.7

or intimidated, or we're scared to fail. That makes sense, doesn't it? Duckworth is saying we

1:03.6

might be better off by learning to tough it out. But the other theme we have often explored is

1:11.2

pretty much the opposite of Grit. Back in 2011, we made an episode called The Upside of Quitting.

1:19.2

Here's my Freakonomics friend and co-author, Steve Levitt, more recently.

1:23.2

There is a compliment to be called a quitter precisely because we live in a world where so many

1:29.1

forces push us to persist far too long at failing endeavors. Now, Levitt is an economist, not a

1:36.6

psychologist, and his ideas about quitting come from basic economic concepts. One of them is called

1:42.4

Opportunity Cost. That's the idea that every dollar or hour or brain cell you spend doing one thing

1:50.1

is a dollar, an hour, or brain cell you can't spend on some other opportunity.

1:55.2

There is another idea called the Sunk Cost Fallacy. A Sunk Cost is a time or money or effort

2:02.2

you've already spent. The fallacy is the belief that since you've already spent all those

2:07.2

resources, you would be foolish to quit. But in reality, this is what economists argue, at least,

2:14.5

those Sunk Costs are a distraction. And if what you're doing isn't likely to work out,

...

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