55 - Who Gets to Decide What's Normal: A Conversation w/ Lisa Selin Davis

Gender: A Wider Lens

Sasha Ayad and Stella O'Malley

Health & Fitness, Society & Culture, Mental Health

4.6 • 961 Ratings

🗓️ 24 December 2021

⏱️ 71 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Lisa Selin Davis is the essayist, journalist, and author of Tomboy: The Surprising History and Future of Girls Who Dare to Be Different. Like many other open-minded, liberal Americans, she has undergone a familiar arc in her understanding of gender issues. She has experienced, first-hand, the current trend of silencing those who seek a deeper understanding of childhood gender nonconformity. In this conversation, Lisa describes how she came to write her book, examines the current state of journalism, and recounts how our understanding of gender rebels has evolved in society. Lisa reminds us that we are not done learning, and we must keep the conversation going on how to best support those who question their gender or exhibit gender nonconformity.

Links:

Tomboy: The Surprising History and Future of Girls Who Dare to Be Different Amazon.com/Tomboy-Surprising-History-Future-Different/dp/0316458317Future-Different/dp/0316458317

WPATH Standards of Care, Version 8 Wpath.org/soc8

Some selected articles of Lisa Selin Davis:

Salon.com/2020/04/23/how-researching-tomboys-and-gender-helped-me-prepare-for-a-pandemic/

Salon.com/2020/08/08/going-back-to-school-dont-forget-to-ditch-gender-norms

Businessinsider.com/how-gender-and-sexuality-standards-changed-views-on-tomboys-2020-8?r=US&IR=T

Nbcnews.com/think/opinion/think-baby-s-gender-determines-personality-s-dangerous-ncna814841

Theguardian.com/us-news/2017/apr/03/identity-theft-racial-justice

Extended Notes:

Why did Lisa decide to write her book, Tomboy?
Lisa received a lot of backlash and she was called a child abuser for the way she decided to parent her child.
Tomboy helped young girls experiment with masculinity.
However, there isn’t a male version of tomboy. So what do the boys do?
The word tomboy seems to have been phased out and it has now been replaced with the word, “trans.”
What happens to Lisa’s reputation after she publishes her book?
Lisa talked to a lot of successfully transitioned trans people, but in the back of her mind, she knew things were going wrong.
Lisa noticed that the trans people she spoke to were no different than the butch older lesbians she had spoken to. The only difference is that this younger generation had access to a newer technology.
Anyone writing about trans kids should know that we do not have good research on this topic.
We have to ask: Does everyone have a gender identity or is it only those with dysphoria that do?
Lisa knew if she were to write more about these topics and actually have them published in the New York Times Magazine, there would be consequences for her and her family.
In 2013, gender dysphoria and trans children were not big topics. However, this exploded in 2017.

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Transcript

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0:00.0	You're listening to gender, a wider lens.
0:04.0	I'm Stella O'Malley, a psychotherapist in Ireland.
0:06.5	And I'm Sasha Ayad, an adolescent therapist in the United States.
0:10.6	Since 2016, my practice has been exclusively dedicated to gender questioning teens
0:16.1	and families impacted by gender dysphoria. I also work with gender questioning
0:20.7	teenagers and I facilitated support meetings for families and
0:24.2	individuals who have been impacted by gender issues. We're curious about the
0:28.1	concept of gender and how it's unfolding in the wider culture. Join us as we look at gender through a wider lens.
0:35.0	Lisa Selin Davis is the author of Tom Boy,
0:40.0	The Surprising History and Future of Girls who dare to be different, as well as two other novels,
0:46.4	Belli and Lost Stars.
0:49.2	She's written articles and essays for the New York Times, The Washington Post, CNN, and many other. and how it's shaped public policies and private lives.
1:03.4	Our conversation with Lisa was both rich and whimsical as we meandered on to some really fascinating
1:08.4	topics, including a surprising history of the term Tom Boyoy which personally I knew very little
1:14.3	about until reading her work. Like many other open-minded liberal Americans
1:19.2	Lisa has undergone a familiar arc in her understanding of gender issues. She's experienced
1:25.3	firsthand the unfortunate trend of silencing those who seek a deeper understanding
1:30.3	of what gender nonconformity is all about in childhood.
1:34.0	Lisa describes how she came to write her book,
1:37.0	we examine the current state of journalism,
1:40.0	and Lisa recounts how our understanding of gender rebels has evolved in society.
1:44.9	She reminds us that we are not done learning, and the current zeitgeist, rather than being
	...

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