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Freakonomics Radio

546. Are E.S.G. Investors Actually Helping the Environment?

Freakonomics Radio

Freakonomics Radio + Stitcher

Documentary, Society & Culture

4.632K Ratings

🗓️ 15 June 2023

⏱️ 55 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Probably not. The economist Kelly Shue argues that E.S.G. investing just gives more money to firms that are already green while depriving polluting firms of the financing they need to get greener. But she has a solution.

Transcript

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0:00.0

Before we start today's episode, an announcement. A birth announcement. There is a new weekly show

0:11.2

in the Freakonomics Radio Network. A show I think you will love. In fact, we know a lot

0:15.6

of you already love it because we put out a few pilot episodes earlier this year. And

0:20.2

the response was strong. The show is called the Economics of Everyday Things and it's hosted

0:25.8

by Zachary Crocket. You can get it right now in your podcast app. So go do that. Just look

0:31.7

up the Economics of Everyday Things and follow or subscribe for free to hear a sample just

0:37.7

stick around to the end of this episode. And now here's this week's episode of Freakonomics

0:43.5

Radio.

0:51.0

My name is Kelly Shew. I'm a professor of finance at the Yale School of Management. Some professors

0:58.4

want to spend all their time on research. Shew does plenty of research, but she also does a lot

1:04.5

of classroom teaching and she likes her students. I get a lot of research ideas from talking to them

1:10.2

and a lot of insights about how the real world differs from what I'm teaching class. So I like it

1:15.2

when they push back and they say what you're teaching me is unrealistic because that's now how we do it

1:18.8

in a firm. But sometimes it's the students who Shew thinks are unrealistic. That's where she got the

1:25.0

idea for a new paper. I was inspired to work on this paper because I was actually just quite annoyed

1:33.1

by an argument that I had heard frequently by some of my MBA students about how ESG investing is

1:41.4

supposed to make the world more green. ESG stands for Environmental Social and Governance and ESG

1:48.1

investing is about allocating resources in a way that makes money while also improving the world.

1:54.5

When Shew heard people explaining how it was supposed to work, she couldn't make the math add up.

2:00.8

I'm just hearing this argument over and over again and in my head I'm thinking that violates

2:06.7

the basic corporate finance concepts that I teach in class. I too want to make the world more green

2:11.8

but I don't think this is going to work. Today on Freakonomics Radio, why wouldn't it work?

...

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