So today I have the pleasure of speaking with Jonathan Pazio.

Jonathan is one of the primary architects of ARC, the Alliance for Responsible Citizenship,

headquartered in London with its next conference in February, we're trying to reestablish a narrative of promise, hope, and abundance for the international community.

Posterous as that might sound, that's still happening.

He runs a website and YouTube channel called The Symbolic World, which has a very devoted

following.

We've spoken many times, and I've always found the conversations extremely illuminating. He has a new book, which is called Jack and the Fallen Giants,

and it's part of a series of traditional fairy tales told with a modern but not postmodern twist.

And what did we talk about today?

We assessed the Dawkins discussion in some detail, focusing really on the issues of perception and categorization.

And that's very much worth understanding

because it explains, at least to some degree,

the fundamental role that stories play

in not only human cognition,

but in perception and in the unfolding of the world.

It's extremely important to understand this,

and I don't think I've delved into it more deeply

with my guests than with Jonathan,

with the possible exception of John Verveke. We've talked about identity and subsidiary participation,

the notion that individual identity can't be conceptualized properly without reference to our

embeddedness in higher order structures,

family, marriage, family, community, nation, well what, one nation, united under God,

...