491. Symbolic Patterns: Memes, Archetypes, Dragons, Genes | Dr. Richard Dawkins & Alex O’Connor

The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast

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Education, Science, Society & Culture

4.6 • 34.5K Ratings

🗓️ 21 October 2024

⏱️ 88 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Dr. Jordan B. Peterson sits down with Alex O’Connor and Richard Dawkins to discuss their differences of view on the Abrahamic biblical texts, truth claims in science and fiction, the extension of memes through Jungian archetypes, and the memetical reality of dragons. This episode was filmed on September 30th, 2024 Richard Dawkins is a British evolutionary biologist, zoologist, science communicator, and bestselling author of books such as “The Selfish Gene,” and “The Genetic Book of the Dead.” Alex O'Connor is a philosophy-oriented YouTuber, podcaster, and public speaker. He graduated in 2021 from St. John's College, Oxford University, with a BA in philosophy and theology. In 2023, he launched the “Within Reason” podcast, which has featured guests including Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins, Slavoj Žižek, Neil deGrasse Tyson, and Rory Stewart, amongst others. | Links | For Richard Dawkins: On X https://x.com/RichardDawkins?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor On YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@poetryofreality The Genetic Book of the Dead (New book) https://www.amazon.com/Genetic-Book-Dead-Darwinian-Reverie/dp/0300278098 For Alex O’Connor: On YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@CosmicSkeptic On X https://x.com/CosmicSkeptic?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

Transcript

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0:00.0	I had the opportunity today to engage in a long weighted discussion.
0:06.0	Dr Richard Dawkins and Alex O'Connor and we took the opportunity to explore things we agree about and things we disagree about in a manner that I think was very productive.
0:17.0	Join us for that.
0:20.0	You said that you were a cultural Christian, but what did you mean by that?
0:24.8	Virtually nothing, Dr. Peterson, you're drunk on symbols.
0:28.0	What I care about is the truth value. I see no truth value in the claims of Christianity, the virgin birth, the resurrection, do believe in any of those?
0:36.4	From a metaphorical perspective, any culture that doesn't hold the image of the woman and infant sacred dies.
0:44.5	Well, let's go back to what you said earlier,
0:46.2	which I was very interested in.
0:47.5	You implied there's no difference between whether the text
0:50.0	is divinely inspired or whether it evolved.
0:53.2	Well, it's the same thing if it's fundamentally reflective of the logos or order.
0:58.7	And I think it is.
0:59.8	I think that Jordan prioritizes myth and I prioritize fact. I'm not
1:04.9	interested in dragons I'm interested in real in reality. But my sense is that those
1:09.4	two pathways have to unify now it's not like I know how to rectify that.
1:14.0	Do you think that that is something that is worth exploring further? Is that...
1:17.0	That's very interesting.
1:18.0	Yes.
1:22.0	I think our first point of contact in the spirit of finding those overlapping circles of
1:26.0	interests between you two will be the similarities if there are any between the concept
1:31.5	of a meme and the concept of an archetype.
	...

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