#471 — The End of History, Revisited
Making Sense with Sam Harris
Waking Up with Sam Harris
4.6 • 29.7K Ratings
🗓️ 16 April 2026
⏱️ 19 minutes
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Summary
Sam Harris speaks with Francis Fukuyama about liberal democracy, American politics, and global order. They discuss the misunderstood thesis of "The End of History," how conservatism has mutated into ethno-nationalism, the self-defeating extremes of both identity politics and neoliberalism, the damage of Trump's second term, the war in Iran, the future of Israel, antisemitism on the left and right, and other topics.
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | You're listening to Making Sense with Sam Harris. |
| 0:04.3 | This is the free version of the podcast, |
| 0:06.1 | so you'll only hear the first part of today's conversation. |
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| 0:18.8 | If you enjoy what we're doing here and find it valuable, please consider subscribing today. |
| 0:24.8 | I am here with Francis Fukuyama. |
| 0:27.0 | Frank, thanks for joining me on the podcast. |
| 0:29.1 | Well, thanks very much for having me. |
| 0:30.7 | I think you and I have only met in person once. |
| 0:33.9 | I don't know if you recall this, but I think we met in Mexico ages ago at the Ceo |
| 0:39.4 | Delacides' conference. Okay, sure. In Puebla. Yeah, yeah. That was a strangely well-produced |
| 0:46.6 | event. It was impressive. It was like the Mexican version of Ted, but with some obvious narco-traffickers |
| 0:53.3 | sitting in the front row, you know, octogenarians with a 20-year-old girlfriends or something like that. |
| 0:59.8 | Yeah. |
| 1:00.5 | Yeah. |
| 1:01.4 | Funded by one of the richest men in Mexico. |
| 1:04.0 | Yeah. |
| 1:04.8 | Yeah. |
| 1:05.4 | Well, it's good to see you. |
... |
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