#452 – Dario Amodei: Anthropic CEO on Claude, AGI & the Future of AI & Humanity

Lex Fridman Podcast

Lex Fridman

Philosophy, Society & Culture, Science, Technology

4.7 • 13K Ratings

🗓️ 11 November 2024

⏱️ 322 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Dario Amodei is the CEO of Anthropic, the company that created Claude. Amanda Askell is an AI researcher working on Claude's character and personality. Chris Olah is an AI researcher working on mechanistic interpretability.
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Transcript:
https://lexfridman.com/dario-amodei-transcript

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EPISODE LINKS:
Claude: https://claude.ai
Anthropic's X: https://x.com/AnthropicAI
Anthropic's Website: https://anthropic.com
Dario's X: https://x.com/DarioAmodei
Dario's Website: https://darioamodei.com
Machines of Loving Grace (Essay): https://darioamodei.com/machines-of-loving-grace
Chris's X: https://x.com/ch402
Chris's Blog: https://colah.github.io
Amanda's X: https://x.com/AmandaAskell
Amanda's Website: https://askell.io

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OUTLINE:
(00:00) - Introduction
(10:19) - Scaling laws
(19:25) - Limits of LLM scaling
(27:51) - Competition with OpenAI, Google, xAI, Meta
(33:14) - Claude
(36:50) - Opus 3.5
(41:36) - Sonnet 3.5
(44:56) - Claude 4.0
(49:07) - Criticism of Claude
(1:01:54) - AI Safety Levels
(1:12:42) - ASL-3 and ASL-4
(1:16:46) - Computer use
(1:26:41) - Government regulation of AI
(1:45:30) - Hiring a great team
(1:54:19) - Post-training
(1:59:45) - Constitutional AI
(2:05:11) - Machines of Loving Grace
(2:24:17) - AGI timeline
(2:36:52) - Programming
(2:43:52) - Meaning of life
(2:49:58) - Amanda Askell - Philosophy
(2:52:26) - Programming advice for non-technical people
(2:56:15) - Talking to Claude
(3:12:47) - Prompt engineering
(3:21:21) - Post-training
(3:26:00) - Constitutional AI
(3:30:53) - System prompts
(3:37:00) - Is Claude getting dumber?
(3:49:02) - Character training
(3:50:01) - Nature of truth
(3:54:38) - Optimal rate of failure
(4:01:49) - AI consciousness
(4:16:20) - AGI
(4:24:58) - Chris Olah - Mechanistic Interpretability
(4:29:49) - Features, Circuits, Universality
(4:47:23) - Superposition
(4:58:22) - Monosemanticity
(5:05:14) - Scaling Monosemanticity
(5:14:02) - Macroscopic behavior of neural networks
(5:18:56) - Beauty of neural networks

Transcript

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0:00.0	The following is a conversation with Dario Amade, CEO of Anthropic, the company that created Claude
0:06.9	that is currently and often at the top of most LLM benchmark leaderboards.
0:12.3	On top of that, Dario and the Anthropic team have been outspoken advocates for taking the topic
0:17.7	of AI safety very seriously, and they have continued to publish a lot of fascinating AI research
0:24.6	on this and other topics.
0:27.6	I'm also joined afterwards by two other brilliant people from Anthropic.
0:32.6	First, Amanda Askell, who is a researcher working on alignment and fine-tuning of Claude,
0:40.0	including the design of Claude's character and personality.
0:44.0	A few folks told me she has probably talked with Claude more than any human etanthropic.
0:50.2	So she was definitely a fascinating person to talk to about prompt engineering and practical advice on how to get the best out of Claude.
0:59.5	After that, Chris Ola stopped by for a chat.
1:03.2	He's one of the pioneers of the field of mechanistic interpretability, which is an exciting set of efforts that aims to reverse engineer neural networks,
1:13.0	to figure out what's going on inside, inferring behaviors from neural activation patterns inside
1:19.5	the network. This is a very promising approach for keeping future super-intelligent AI systems
1:26.4	safe.
1:30.3	For example, by detecting from the activations when the model is trying to deceive the human, it is talking to.
1:35.8	And now a quick few-second mention of each sponsor.
1:38.9	Check them out in the description.
1:40.4	It's the best way to support this podcast.
1:42.7	We got Encore for machine learning,
1:45.2	Notion for machine learning powered note taking and team collaboration, Shopify for selling
1:52.0	stuff online, better help for your mind and element for your health. Choose wise and my friends.
	...

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