Sam Harris speaks with Jonah Goldberg about Trump 2.0 and wealth inequality. They discuss the horseshoe theory, illiberalism on the Right and the Left, the fallout of the Trump-Epstein controversy, cracks in Trump's cult following, the difference between MAGA activists and average republican voters, why the Democrats still haven't course-corrected, problems with the "abundance agenda," socialism and economic populism, the pitfalls of the far-left's approach to solving wealth inequality, Israel's standing on the world stage, and other topics.

If the Making Sense podcast logo in your player is BLACK, you can SUBSCRIBE to gain access to all full-length episodes at samharris.org/subscribe.