The question is in terms of global economic damage, global loss of life, global disruption,

what sort of responsibility does China have for the spread of COVID-19 and on what grounds?

Michelle, let's start with you.

I think it's very clear that it came from one source or another in Wuhan.

I think it's very clear that the Chinese government sought to suppress that information early on,

even punishing people like doctors who are trying to make it known, and that mishandling of the early crisis

significantly increased the global implications and the price that every other country of the world

is going to pay in lives and in livelihood in economic terms.

Michael, same question, but really what I want to get to with both of you is should China pay

for COVID-19 and if so, how?

Well, I think we should be realistic. It's not going to pay. There's different types of payment,

by the way. If you're talking about monetary payment, it's not ever going to pay monetarily.

There are no mechanisms to make it pay. Should it pay politically? Should it pay reputationally?

Should it pay in a moral sense? I think the answer to all of that is yes.

Michelle Florenoi runs a strategic advisory firm called West exec. She is a once and perhaps future

government official. In my former life, I was the undersecretary of defense for policy

in the Pentagon in the Obama administration and in that capacity I dealt with the full range of

policy issues including US-China relations. Michael Oslin is an historian whose forthcoming book

is called Asia's New Geopolitics. I am a distinguished research fellow at the Hoover

Institution at Stanford and before that was a professor at Yale. And I hate to force each of you

to reduce yourself to a label, but if you had to categorize yourself on the China Hawk Dove spectrum,

where do you stand? I'm a clear-eyed pragmatist. I see the challenges and threat pretty clearly,

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