You're listening to an Airwave Media podcast.

Good Robert Newberg at this point says, okay, I realize that everyone thinks I'm a bugger.

I'm not going to change anybody's mind on this. I'm going to make the argument that it doesn't

matter. He says, these rumors don't matter. You've told rumors about what I'm wearing. You've

joked about my clothes. You've told all these nasty stories about me.

Why does this matter? Why does this mean I can't be a chaplain in this unit? And that I find

so moving, because that I think is really the heart of the Enlightenment, his way of saying,

the personal is not political. What I do in my personal life, what I may or may not do,

how I dress, what I say, what rumors are said

about me. These shouldn't matter to me doing my job and being treated equally to everyone else.

Hello and welcome to episode 414 of Ben Franklin's World, the podcast dedicated to helping you

learn more about how the people and events of our early American past have shaped the present day

world we live in. And I'm your host, Liz Covert. June is Pride Month, a time when we purposely reflect on the ongoing

struggles and contributions of LGBTQIA-plus individuals throughout history and today. It's a time

when we should ask, how do we uncover queer lives from the distant past, especially in an

era when language and records often erased and obscured them.

Or what did queerness look like in early America? And how might it have intersected with power,

religion, and empire on the eve of the American Revolution? John McCurdy, a professor of history

and philosophy at Eastern Michigan University, and author of the book, Ficious and Immoral,

Homosexuality, the American Revolution,

and the trials of Robert Newberg.

Joins us to explore these questions

...