I'm John Batsur with Barry Strauss, Professor Barry Strauss at Cornell University, whose

new book is The War that made the Roman Empire, Antony Cleopatra and Octavian at Actium.

And here comes the mistake that Antony could have avoided.

It's called an unforced error in sports, and it's a wapper.

Professor, what is his decision of his wife, Octavia?

Antony decides to divorce Octavia.

This is a propaganda bonanza for Octavian in Rome, saying Antony has betrayed his Roman wife

and the mother of his two daughters, and instead he has turned her over for Cleopatra for this

Egyptian queen.

He's no longer a real Roman.

He's no longer representing Roman interests.

And this is the banner that Octavian wants to go to war under.

He's fighting for Rome.

Antony is really no longer fighting for Rome.

He's fighting for Egypt, for the Greek speakers, for the East, and must be defeated to save Rome.

I'll go over this part of your book and I agree with Octavian.

Yeah.

I can't understand why he felt after all these years this was necessary, unless Cleopatra insisted

upon it.

What did he get out of divorcing Octavia?

He gets out of divorcing Octavia, I think.

He said, but the political scientist called credible commitment.

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