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I'm John Bat-S-O-P-Cussbaum and Brenda Schaefer of the Naval Postgraduate School.

Their book is operational energy. It's a textbook, it's a teaching book, it's a

work of historical accuracy about energy defining warfare and transitions from one kind

of energy to another, making the battlefield change with it.

Right now the battlefield is not just what blows up and what makes craters.

It's also cyber.

So Brenda, I want to start with you on my understanding of

cyber warfare in the energy pipelines. The colonial pipeline was under attack by a group out of Russia that claims they have no

geopolitical efforts. I'm going to believe that right along with I believe with

Tinker Bell that every time you say I don't believe it very dies somewhere so what we've got here is

the dual use of cyber as a way of attacking our energy infrastructure

did you see people thinking about this?

Brenda, I asked Dan about thinking about the vulnerability of nuclear power plants, but what

about the vulnerability of everything to cyber?

...