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The John Batchelor Show

38: Trump's Nuclear Testing Remarks and the China-Russia Partnership Guest: Anatol Lieven Anatol Lieven discusses President Trump's remark about testing nuclear weapons "on an equal basis" with Russia and China, suggesting it likely refers to missile testing

The John Batchelor Show

John Batchelor

News, Arts, Books, Society & Culture

4.52.8K Ratings

🗓️ 30 October 2025

⏱️ 5 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Trump's Nuclear Testing Remarks and the China-Russia Partnership Guest: Anatol Lieven Anatol Lieven discusses President Trump's remark about testing nuclear weapons "on an equal basis" with Russia and China, suggesting it likely refers to missile testing rather than actual nuclear detonations. Lieven analyzes the "no limits" China-Russia partnership, noting its inherent contradictions: China refuses to recognize Russia's annexations of Ukrainian territory and fears Russia's complete defeat, though it simultaneously opposes Russia being gravely weakened. Lieven also addresses the controversy regarding NATO-supplied forces in Ukraine identified as extreme ethnic nationalists, particularly the Azov regiment, noting that their military importance to the defense effort makes disbanding them highly unlikely.



Transcript

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0:00.0

I'm John Batchew with my colleague Anatole-Levin, the Eurasia Project Director at the Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft.

0:11.4

Coalition of the Willing, and it met in London last Friday, and afterwards, Mr. Zelensky was bolstered by not only promises but policy, Mr. Starrmer, Mr.

0:24.3

McCrown, Mr. Merritts, and the leadership of the important part of the EU is committed

0:31.1

to Ukraine more.

0:32.9

However, there are questions that I can raise that I need help on.

0:39.8

And until I've mentioned this before, it comes to my attention that the Ukrainians,

0:45.0

especially those fighting the war or participating in fierce resistance,

0:50.9

identify in some fashion with what we would consider unacceptable conduct.

0:57.3

Sometimes they're called neo-Nazis. Sometimes they're just called Nazis. They celebrate the Nazi

1:02.2

and Vermeck behavior in Ukraine. 20 million people died from Ukraine during the second war

1:08.6

at the hands of the Germans and their allies.

1:13.1

Since then, this idea that there are Nazis in Ukraine, first advanced by Mr. Putin,

1:18.3

I believe it's one of his war aims to end the Nazi, notification of Ukraine,

1:23.4

and to bring the Russian speakers home.

1:25.8

But I did a report yesterday that demonstrates it's impossible

1:29.5

to ignore the fact that there are Nazis in the military being supplied by NATO, by the United

1:35.6

States, and that they have no intention of hiding their background or taking the tattoos off.

1:43.6

All of this is hard for me to understand how NATO knows this and goes along with it and doesn't

1:49.9

object to it.

1:51.0

Can you help me understand this?

1:54.1

Well, I mean, the thing is that these people, you know, we're talking about groups like the

1:59.1

Azov regiment, which is now actually much more than a regiment. I've heard it may be a divisional strength. I wouldn't myself describe them as Nazis because, you know, that brings with it those images of the Holocaust and everything else. You know, they certainly have fascistic elements, that's for sure. Their ancestors fought

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