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This is CBSI on the world.

I'm John Batchel with Malcolm Holnion,

and we're very pleased to be joined by the Foundation for the Defense of Democracy,

Jonathan Conruchus, a veteran of the conflicts in and around Israel.

We go immediately to Hamas.

The news is that the Hamas is slow rolling, the release of bodies,

and that there is no expectation at this point from observers that the second phase will begin, which would be the surrendering

of the arms. There's also the number 20,000 used for what's left inside the less than half

of Gaza occupied by Hamas and other gangs.

What is your measure of Hamas's plan, Jonathan?

Where are they going with this?

Because they're stalling.

Good evening to you.

Good evening, John.

And Malcolm, thank you for having me on.

I would say that there's currently kind of a reality distortion field over Gaza, whereby

reality on the ground is one thing, and what's reflected in media and what some people

in certain capitals believe is happening is something different. On the ground, what Hamas is

...