375 - Paul Kingsnorth - Western Civilization Is Already Dead

The Symbolic World

Jonathan Pageau

Religion & Spirituality, Society & Culture, Education

4.8 • 824 Ratings

🗓️ 12 January 2025

⏱️ 59 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Paul Kingsnorth gave a provocative talk for First Things' Erasmus Lecture of 2024, titled "Against Christian Civilization". In this episode, we discuss the essence of his argument, delving into the fundamental tensions between Christianity and civilization. How does faith interact with culture? What is the Biblical narrative around cities and governance? Are we misusing Christianity as a tool for cultural preservation over pursuing true spiritual transformation? Is Western Civilization as we know it even salvable at this point?

-Paul Kingsnorth’s First Things talk: "Against Christian Civilization" | 2024 Erasmus Lecture: https://www.youtube.com/live/Y3hMSZqatHI?si=bmT1rqPyEF-LvR0_
-Written article version of his talk: Against Christian Civilization, January 2025: https://www.firstthings.com/article/2025/01/against-christian-civilization

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==========TIMESTAMPS==========
00:00 - Coming up
01:31 - Intro music
01:56 - Introduction
03:02 - The essence of Paul's talk
07:13 - Civilization and Revelation
12:02 - A Christian's challenge
16:45 - The Biblical vision
31:13 - What about the rulers?
37:01 - Buildings
42:10 - Brands and idols
47:27 - The seed and the fruit
49:24 - Celebrating stories

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Transcript

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0:00.0	but I have a feeling that the West itself needs to die.
0:03.0	In fact, I think it may already have died, actually.
0:06.0	This thing we call the West is a sacrifice and is being sacrificed
0:10.0	so that the plant can die so the seeds can grow, exactly as you were talking earlier, right?
0:14.0	You don't get the growth without the sacrifice.
0:16.0	And I think we've got to such a point where we have created a culture that is irreligious and Babylon-like
0:23.2	and top-heavy and it's just fading away. And I don't mean that there should be a giant
0:27.4	catastrophe or we should destroy it or anything like that. I just think that it's dying if it's not
0:31.5	already gone. And we have to let that happen because it's not going to be stoppable at this point.
0:36.4	And instead of doing that, instead of like fighting to protect X, Y, and Z aspects of the superstructure,
0:43.8	we can go back to the root of the culture and write about that instead and build that and protect that.
0:48.6	So it's not an all or nothing situation.
0:50.4	We don't say, oh, well, the West is in trouble.
0:51.8	Let's let everything burn like the Joker,
0:57.9	you know, but at the same time, we don't say, well, let's get out there and fight for our right to, I don't know, form transnational corporations and have economic growth forever and ever
1:03.9	and mine the asteroids with Ellen Musk, right? That's not anything to do with what we're talking
1:08.0	about. Why don't we step back from that battle at the moment
1:11.8	which is going on anyway and go back to our roots which we'll find in those stories? Let's
1:16.6	tell the stories of the saints. Let's tell the fairy tales are new. Let's go and write about
1:20.6	how Christianity manifests in the landscape. And let's do that not with a plan in mind that this is
1:25.4	going to build a civilization but just because we think it's the thing we need to do, and then things will happen, you know?
1:42.3	This is Jonathan Peugeot. Welcome to the symbolic world.
	...

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