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Bad People

36. Nazi on Trial 2: Is Evil banal?

Bad People

BBC

True Crime

4.41.1K Ratings

🗓️ 22 July 2021

⏱️ 35 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

We continue the story of the notorious Nazi officer and organiser of the Holocaust, Adolf Eichmann, as he goes on trial in Israel. Political theorist Hannah Arendt covers the case, and like so many others, expects to see a monster in a glass cage. Instead she arrives at the chilling conclusion that Eichmann is not a criminal mastermind nor a “monster”, but a dim-witted bureaucrat. Her description upset many people, because how can something so terrible as the holocaust happen? Surely the devil himself must be behind it? “Despite all the efforts of the prosecution, everybody could see that this man was not a “monster,” but it was difficult indeed not to suspect that he was a clown”, Hannah Arendt wrote in her famous article for The New Yorker. The experience led her to coin the phrase “The Banality of Evil”. Humans, she explains, do terrible things for ordinary reasons, such as turning up for work every day. In Eichmann’s case, this included making sure that trains full of Jewish people arrived at the death camps on time. On this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and comedian Sofie Hagen examines Hannah Arendt’s work and what it means for how we understand great acts of violence and antisemitism. “Evil comes from a failure to think. It defies thought for as soon as thought tries to engage itself with evil and examine the premises and principles from which it originates, it is frustrated because it finds nothing there. That is the banality of evil”, Hannah Arendt, The New Yorker, 1963. This episode includes audio from the short series of educational films, The Eichmann Show, created for the BBC, produced and directed by David Barrie. Warning: This episode contains strong language and descriptions of violence CREDITS Presenters: Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Louisa Field Assistant Producer: Simona Rata Music: Matt Chandler Editor: Rami Tzabar Academic Consultants for The Open University: Lara Frumkin and James Munro Commissioning Assistant Producer: Adam Eland Commissioning Executive: Dylan Haskins Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds. #BadPeople_BBC

Transcript

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0:00.0

Hello, Gary Lednika here with Alan Shira and Michael Richards to say the match of the day top 10 podcast is back

0:07.4

We'll be ranking our footballing top 10s and debiting. It was right. Well, it's don't be me. Not a champ. It's Gary

0:14.8

First season wonders to goalkeeping blunders. Nothing is off the table. You had a few blunders in your day. Did you Gary?

0:22.0

Yeah, match of the day top 10. Listen only on BBC sounds

0:27.4

BBC sounds music radio podcasts

0:31.9

Three two one. I want to know who you're non-inselectual girl crushes. You're uneducated girl crush

0:39.4

Angelina Dolly. Since girl interrupted

0:43.7

Wow. Yeah

0:46.4

When she was blonde

0:48.4

When she was blonde. Oh, and out of her mind. And out of her mind. Oh, she was incredible

0:55.1

That's true. I agree. But actually, are you kidding? She's also the heart of women in the entire world

1:03.4

She's also bisexual so like maybe I've got a shot

1:06.0

I also stuck with her through the sort of weird Billy Bob Thornton phase. I still stuck with her and then she was a Brad Pitt and I was like double yum

1:13.8

I love this idea that she's bisexual. Therefore you probably have a chance

1:19.2

It's like saying and you know, jolly is by oh, but she's married so I don't have a chance

1:24.9

As if I would have a chance if she wasn't married

1:28.1

Don't kill my hope

1:31.3

Switching gears the reason this came up is because I mentioned that this episode is going to be all about my intellectual girl crush

1:38.1

At least you know intellectual girl crush when it comes to her work on evil

1:41.9

Hannah are rent and her coverage of Adolf Eichmann's trial this episode is effectively part two of the story about Adolf Eichmann

1:49.5

The Nazi who organized the deportation of millions of Jewish people to concentration camps

1:54.4

That means that if you haven't listened to the last episode of bad people

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