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W.

W. Empire pod UK.com. We heard them gathering on the hills again. They called and whistled.

Bugles blue.

Allah, they cried, then feet came thudding on.

Allah, up on the left the firing grew.

In one gust it came down to us.

Stand too.

Here they come, fire once more.

We fire at shouts and shadows and then gone. They are gone now all

melted as before. So that's a poem by the Australian war poet, Harley Matthews, and it describes the way he and his fellow soldiers were haunted for the rest of their lives by that Ottoman war cry of Allah during the fighting at Gallipoli.

That's the topic of this week's podcasts and I'm delighted to say that we have tempted him back and

and reading we're very grateful. Eugene Rogan, the fantastic Eugene Rogan, author of the fall of the Ottomans,

the Great War in the Middle East, 1914 to 1920.

And the man on the late Ottoman Empire, we are very, very lucky to have him here live from

St. Angelis. We are grateful, but the reason this is even more poignant than

having a big brain, planetary brain like yourself on this podcast. It's because there is a personal connection

to the Gallipoli story. Tell us a little bit about Lance Corporal John McDonald, would you?

Well, first off, thank you so much for having you back, William and Anita, and yes, I mean, as I started my book, so it's pointed to start our discussion of Gallipley today with just one of those personal stories that I think is one of the reasons why everyone remained so fascinated by the First World War.

We're so bound up to the suffering and survival of the veterans of that conflict.

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