Hello, you are listening to the Secular Buddhism Podcast and this is episode number 33.

I am your host Noah Rasheda and today I am talking about heaven and hell.

Welcome back to the Secular Buddhism Podcast.

This is a weekly podcast that focuses on Buddhist concepts, topics and teachings presented

for a secular-minded audience.

The Dalai Lama has said, do not try to use what you learn from Buddhism to be a Buddhist,

use it to be a better whatever you already are.

If you are new to Secular Buddhism or you are interested in learning more, check out my

book Secular Buddhism, Eastern Thought for Western Minds.

It is available as paperback on Amazon, eBook, Kindle and iBook on iTunes and also as

an audiobook on audible.com.

For more information and links to the book versions visit SecularBudism.com.

So let's jump into this week's topic.

So the last couple of weeks I have been reading a book called Zen Coens by Gio Mekubose

and it has been a fascinating experience to become familiar with Zen Coens.

On the website Elephant Journal, Don Deanda talks about Coens and says the Coen serves

as a surgical tool used to cut into and then break through the mind of the practitioner.

Coens aren't just puzzles that your mind figures out suddenly and proclaims, aha, the

answer is three.

They wait for you to open enough to allow the space necessary for them to enter into

your depths, the inner regions beyond knowing.

So essentially what that means is the coen is meant to help break out of the conceptual

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