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Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy

312: Five Secrets: A Deeper Dive

Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy

David Burns, MD

Clinical, Therapy, Anxiety, Psychotherapy, Depression, Health & Fitness, Cognitive, Mentalhealth, Mental Health, Behavior, Education, Self-improvement, Psychology, Relationships, Addiction, Happiness, Personalgrowth

4.4856 Ratings

🗓️ 3 October 2022

⏱️ 56 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

How to Master the Five Secrets: If You Dare!

In our recent podcast surveys, one of the highest rated show topics was learning therapy techniques, both for therapists and for the general public. That’s why today we’re going to take a deeper dive on some of the fine points of the Five Secrets of Effective Communication. We’ll show you how to use them with individuals who are angry and hostile, including some patients with Borderline Personality Disorder as well as kids who may be ticked off at a parent. These topics were specifically requested by people who completed the podcast survey.

Link to Five Secrets

The Five Secrets are like a fantastic musical instrument, capable of working magic for troubled relationships. You can’t just sit down at a fine grand piano and pound on the keys and expect great music to emerge. You’ll just get cacophony.

To learn the Five Secrets, you need:

  • Great determination and desire

  • The willingness to endure the “Great Death” of the “self,” or pride.

  • Tons of ongoing practice with immediate feedback and deliberate practice involving role reversals until you get it “right,” or receive an “A.”

To get started, Rhonda and David made a list of a few of the most challenging criticisms a therapist might hear from a patient, or a parent might hear from a teenager.

Criticisms from patients included:

  • You don’t care about me!

  • I’m not getting better. You’re not helping me!

  • You charge too much!

  • All you care about is your darn techniques.

  • That’s not my child’s name! You’re not listening to me!

And this one, from a first time patient referred by the courts:

  • I got anxious last night and masturbated to your image, which I found on the internet, and it really helped!

These are some criticisms from kids:

  • Stop nagging me!

  • Stop giving me advice. I don’t want any advice!

We demonstrated the “Intimacy Exercise” I have created for our training programs. You can use this exercise to work on conflicts with patients and conflicts with loved ones. It works exactly the same way in both situations. You’ll need someone to practice with.

Step 1. One of you agrees to play the critic and the other plays the role of the person being attacked (therapist or parent, for example.)

Step 2. The person playing the role of the critic verbalizes the hostile comment.

Step 3. The person playing the role of the therapist / parent responds as effectively as you can, using the Five Secrets of Effective Communication.

Now you must STOP. The exchange is done. No further interaction in the role playing format is permitted.

Step 4. The person who played the role of the therapist / parent gives himself / herself a grade between A and F. Ask yourself, “How well did I do just now?”

Step 5. The person who played the role of the critic gives the therapist / parent a letter grade, and then provides the following specific kinds of feedback using Five Secrets language.

Positive Feedback: Here’s what you said that worked pretty well. Your Thought Empathy was great, and your Disarming Technique was fairly good. Your Stroking was excellent, especially when you said X, Y, or Z.

Negative Feedback: Here’s what you said that needs a little fine tuning: Your Feeling Empathy was completely missing—you did not acknowledge how the other person was feeling. Your “I Feel” statements were also missing, and there was no Inquiry at the end.

Then you can suggest ways to include the Five Secrets elements that were missing or “off,” and demonstrate how you might improve the response to the criticism with a role reversal, followed by another round of grading and positive and negative feedback.

Continue using role-reversals until both parties can get an A on the exercise, always using the same harsh criticism that you’re trying to learn how to master. Don’t try something new until you’ve mastered the thing you’re working on.

The practice is powerful but hard, and requires the philosophy of “joyous failure.” This means welcoming the chance to get immediate feedback about your skills, or lack of skill, instead of getting blown away, defensive, or “yes-butting” the person who’s trying to correct your technique.

You will hear some pretty dramatic examples of this on today’s podcast!

The Five Secrets can be life-changing, but the price of learning is fairly stiff. If you want the rewards, the exercise we demonstrate in today’s podcast can be incredibly helpful—but scary!

Also, you can read my book, Feeling Good Together, and do the written exercises while reading if you’re a therapist or a general citizen. This helps a lot. Dr. Jill Levitt said she kept Feeling Good Together on her nightstand for more than a year when she first joined by training group at Stanford. Her dedication and hard work have clearly paid off for her.

If you’re a therapist, you can also read the chapters on E = Empathy in my Tools, Not Schools, of Therapy book, and make sure you do the written exercises while reading!

Thanks so much! And good luck if you’re brave enough to try our “Intimacy Exercise!”

David and Rhonda

 

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0

Hello and welcome to the Feeling Good podcast, where you can learn powerful techniques

0:11.6

to change the way you feel. I am your host, Dr. Ronda Borovsky, and joining me here in the

0:16.8

Murrieta studio is Dr. David Burns. Dr. Burns is a pioneer in the development of

0:22.3

cognitive behavioral therapy and the creator of the new team therapy. He's the author of Feeling

0:27.4

Good, which has sold over 5 million copies in the United States and has been translated into over 30

0:33.2

languages. His latest book, Feeling Great, contains powerful new techniques that make rapid recovery

0:39.3

possible for many people struggling with depression and anxiety. Dr. Burns is currently an emeritus

0:45.2

adjunct professor of clinical psychiatry at Stanford University School of Medicine.

0:51.2

Hello.

0:57.0

Hello, Rhonda.

1:02.5

Hello, David, and welcome everyone to episode 312.

1:06.5

Welcome to everyone to our listeners around the country and across the world,

1:09.2

because we do have people all over the world.

1:16.8

And I just reinstated the whole, the hello Ronda after having terminated it last week,

1:19.6

it is now back by popular demand.

1:21.3

I know because, go ahead.

1:22.0

Go ahead.

1:26.8

Well, there were people that said, there were a few people in the survey that said they didn't like the Hello Ronda,

1:33.8

but there were more people that said they did like it. And you were a few people in the survey that said they didn't like the hello ronda but there are more people that said they did like it and you were saying that people when you came back from your world travels and that people often use that when they said alodeo right they say it to me

1:39.4

in poland and like i said whenever i'm in part of a team community event, people say that to me.

1:44.3

Oh, I love Hello Ronda.

1:45.3

They actually want to have the opportunity to say it themselves to me.

...

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