I dreamt that you were twisting through seven suns of gold and the gypsy was insisting

that story must be told I came two in the morning but I took it as a warning that you might be a treasure.

I could touch but never hold.

Hello, everybody.

And welcome to the Soberful podcast.

I am joined today by Dr. Fred Luskin and Lyndon Harris.

Welcome to the show, guys.

Thank you.

Thank you.

So the reason that I wanted to get these two lovely chaps on

is they have written a book called The Forgive for Good Recovery Workbook.

And it's a book about forgiveness and particularly for people with a substance use

disorder. First of all, like, how did you mean? Gosh, we met right after 9-11 through a mutual friend,

Rod Bextram. I did a lot of work after 9-11, Ground Zero, New York, and my life fell apart.

And Rod told me, said, well, you know, I think you need to forgive these guys.

And I said, what?

I was livid.

He said, well, I got a guy I want to introduce you to.

So Fred and I met, and we actually did a workshop together. Fred led it, of course, for 9-11 family members who had lost loved one on the day.

And remember that, Fred, we were in New York at your friend's house who was the Grammy Award-winning musical producer.

I can't remember the names, but that was a long time ago.

That was a long time ago.

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