This is CBSI in the World. I'm John Bachelor in Agent Waldrich, who is

badgered at the Economist is the author Agent Waldrich of the Aristocracy of

Talent, how meritocracy made the world. And we've moved through 2500 years of

history right up to the 19th century now. I do not want to leave out Plato, however.

I didn't have a moment to include him, but Plato writes a republic. And in the

republic, there are doubts about democracy. Doubt about whether you can trust

people to know what's best for them because after all, they're working very hard

and they live short lives. Doubt's also about whether democracy chooses the

best leader. Doubt's also about whether you're ever going to follow a course of

action that is rewarded anywhere in this lifetime. That is in the minds of the

men and women of the 19th century as we come to not the French Revolution, but the

British interpretation of the French Revolution. And Adrian identifies two

schools of thought in Britain, in the United Kingdom, in the 19th century that

are important to explore because they inform how the United States responds

as well to the search for brains for talent. One is the school of

utilitarians, the greatest number for the greatest good. The other is the school

of economists, which is self-interest. Adrian, I can't choose between them and I

don't think Britain did either. Is that correct?

Absolutely. In some ways, they sort of supplements each other because the people

like Adam Smith and the great founders of modern economics are sort of

utilitarians. And they're taking part of the utilitarian philosophy and using

it to inform their arguments. And of course, the greatest utilitarian economists

...