288. New Study on Kilian Jornet, The Incredible Story of US Skimo, Shoe Review Rant, VO2 Max, and “Hot Girl Sweating”
Some Work, All Play
David Roche and Megan Roche
4.8 • 2.1K Ratings
🗓️ 9 December 2025
⏱️ 77 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
We had one of the most fun sports-watching weekends of our lives before this great episode! The main science topic was a new study on Kilian Jornet at Western States, breaking down his fueling, the metabolic demand, and lots more. Kilian is also the 2nd author on the paper! We’ve said it before and we’ll say it again: In a world of external monitors, be the rectal thermometer.
We also talked about the amazing saga of USA Skimo’s Olympic qualification, featuring trail runners Anna Gibson and Cam Smith. This story needs to be a movie! In the meantime, a podcast will have to do.
And this episode was full of amazing topics! Other topics: David’s bad experience at the track, when data and belief conflict, Courtney Dauwalter’s blazing fast marathon time, a shoe review rant, what it means to improve VO2 max, why effort is cool, hemoglobin and hematocrit levels, training through colds, and the perils of NCAA running and short-term incentive structures.
This episode finishes with the most joyous time of all: A PERIOD PARTY. We love you all! HUZZAH!
-David and Megan
Click "Claim Your Sponsorship" for $40 free credit at The Feed here: thefeed.com/swap
Buy Janji's amazing gear: https://janji.com (code "SWAP")
The Wahoo KICKR Run is the best treadmill on the market: https://www.wahoofitness.com/devices/running/treadmills/kickr-run-buy (code “SWAP”)
For training plans, weekly bonus podcasts, articles, and videos: patreon.com/swap
Transcript
Click on a timestamp to play from that location
| 0:00.0 | Woohoo. Welcome to the Some Work All Play podcast. We are so happy with you today. Happy Tuesday. It's Tuesday. |
| 0:06.1 | And I'm ready for some carbs on the track on this Tuesday. Oh shit. A lot of carbs on the track. |
| 0:11.2 | You're using this as the intro. No, good intro. I appreciate it. We're going to come full circle on this |
| 0:15.9 | intro. Just wait. Okay, okay. So this is referencing last Tuesday after we released the episode. |
| 0:21.2 | We went to the track with so many carbs because I was going to do 20 miles on the track |
| 0:25.5 | targeting stealthily a world record at Desert Solstice on December 20th. |
| 0:30.4 | And I was planning to get to 170 to 180 grams of carbs per hour in this 20 mile test. |
| 0:35.6 | I was going to crush it. |
| 0:36.8 | It was all going to go great until it |
| 0:38.8 | didn't. And we were going to science the shit out of it. I came to the track with you, planning to crew, |
| 0:43.8 | brought like 400 grams of carbs, a bunch of bottles, a notebook for splits, arranged it on a |
| 0:48.9 | step stool. And I was like, this is beautiful. I was proud. You even practice splits in the morning with our toddler Leo around the kitchen. You were so ready. You had your high school coach game on like amazingly. It was my dream. I was practicing splits on a garment. I was like, I need one of those stopwatches that go around the neck. Oh, shit. I need to step it up. Bringing out the big guns. Okay, so I get there. |
| 1:11.2 | Director Cody's there to film it. Tin Man Elite is there doing their own workout. They're such wonderful guys. They were saying how much they love me each lap. It felt so meaningful. I felt supported. But I also felt very self-conscious running on Lane 1 as they're going so much faster than I am. And that should have been the first sign that maybe the track wasn't for me. |
| 1:30.4 | Maybe it was because you couldn't say love you guys back. They were giving you a lot of love out there. And I feel like there was a part of your brain that was like, if I talk, if I scream, love you to the universe and to 10 man elite, that it might elevate my heart rate. And so I'd actually thought about this ahead of time. and I was going to plaster sayings on the back of your back of just like, I love you. You're awesome. The classic David Roach phrases. Okay. Would you go anything a little bit more interesting or just stick with the basics? I feel like we need to have six that are like classic David and then just throw one in there. Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah. an I spy moment and be like, spot the weird one. If it was just 10 man elite, I should probably say, |
| 2:03.6 | nice bulges. |
| 2:04.4 | Yes. and then just throw one in there. That's like an I spy moment and be like, spot the weird one. |
| 2:01.6 | If it was just 10 man elite, I should probably say, nice bulges. They're great guys. I love them. And I want them to have good self-confidence. So I get out there and start doing it. And after one gel and a little bit of drink, I quit at like four and a half miles or whatever, realizing that my fitness and my toughness just weren't cut out for it right now. |
| 2:20.7 | And it was a really good thing. I quit at like four and a half miles or whatever, realizing that my fitness and my toughness |
| 2:18.4 | just weren't cut out for it right now. And it was a really good lesson to learn. Also a little |
| 2:22.9 | bit of a hard lesson to learn. And thank you for being there again. But yeah, one of those |
| 2:28.4 | moments when going stealth mode goes wrong. And I wanted to let everybody know that it's okay |
| 2:33.2 | sometimes to fuck things up. Well, I've been there before. I've had days where I've stepped off the track and I've just been like, oh, I feel like it's also harder in this modern era when you have bicarb on board. And you asked me for 100 milligram calf gel within the first two laps. And I feel like you harness the energy for that the rest of the day. Actually, I loved you finished. And we had this moment, and Director Cody got it on camera, of us just going back and forth and talking about, you know, the intersection of belief and data. And what happens when you're handed data that you're like, you know, maybe this is not feeding into what we thought. And that being said, I want you to go back out there for one more data point. But we have this all on film. And then after that, you're like, I'm going to go rip some 200s shirtless. Ripped off my shirt, just a 200s while Cody filmed. And it got an Instagram. So maybe it was all worth it in the end. But you had to be serious. Like, it was a science gathering mission. And I learned that the science was not on my side. And sometimes that happens. And that's okay. So, yeah, failure teaches, you know, and I did learn a lot from that experience and trying to build back to it really quickly. But what it really showed me is that the PAB levels, the punk-ass bitch levels are still there, even if I've had a couple good days at Redwell and Havillina. And I need to validate the PAB levels lead the way sometimes. Nah, I feel like we need to get to another data point and see what happens. Sometimes you're just like a PAB on one day. I've been there before. And actually, as you were leaving the track, Reed Fisher, I think, from Tin Man Elite was like, that was the fastest 20 mile I've ever seen. 20 miles became 5 miles. And then he also said too, I think, from Tinman Elite, was like, that was the fastest 20-mile I've ever seen. |
... |
Please login to see the full transcript.
Disclaimer: The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from David Roche and Megan Roche, and are the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Tapesearch.
Generated transcripts are the property of David Roche and Megan Roche and are distributed freely under the Fair Use doctrine. Transcripts generated by Tapesearch are not guaranteed to be accurate.
Copyright © Tapesearch 2026.

