280. Partition: The Creation of Pakistan (Part 3)

Empire

Goalhanger

History

4.6 • 4.1K Ratings

🗓️ 11 August 2025

⏱️ 40 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Why did Jinnah initially accept that Pakistan could be part of an Indian Federation? When did Jinnah start to push for Pakistan to be independent from India? What was Direct Action Day in 1946, and how did it start the violence of Partition? William and Anita are joined once again by Sam Dalrymple, author of Shattered Lands: Five Partitions And The Making of Modern Asia, to discuss the origins of The Great Partition of 1947. Become a member of the Empire Club via empirepoduk.com to receive early access to miniseries, ad-free listening, early access to live show tickets, bonus episodes, book discounts, our exclusive newsletter, and access to our members’ chatroom on Discord! Head to empirepoduk.com to sign up. For more Goalhanger Podcasts, head to www.goalhanger.com. Email: [email protected] Instagram: @empirepoduk Blue Sky: @empirepoduk X: @empirepoduk Assistant Producer: Becki Hills Producer: Anouska Lewis Executive Producer: Neil Fearn Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0	If you want access to bonus episodes reading lists for every series of Empire, a chat community.
0:06.7	Discounts for all the books mentioned in the week's podcast, add free listening and a weekly newsletter,
0:12.5	sign up to Empire Club at www.empowerpoduk.com.
0:32.8	Hello and welcome to Empire with me, Anita Arnh.
0:35.1	And me, William Duremple.
0:39.5	Now we are on the third of our five partition stories with Sam Durempel.
0:44.4	We are really sort of exploiting him for the knowledge that exists in this wonderful new book of his Shattered Lands, Five Partitions.
0:46.5	Child Labour.
0:47.7	And the making of modern age.
0:49.6	Hardly a child.
0:50.4	He's a number one bestseller in India where I believe you're at number five.
0:56.3	The last looked. So in this episode, the last episode was utterly fascinating and was a terrain that is so little explored.
1:03.7	And that is the way in which the Gulf states in the Arab Peninsula are subsumed in this idea of a greater India, this East India company thing that
1:13.7	doesn't even appear on maps that shows that, you know, some of these states that Sam talked
1:17.7	about in the last episode were deemed to be like princely states in India itself.
1:23.0	Not deemed to be like princely states, they were princely states.
1:26.0	They were, with no gun salutes sometimes,
1:28.2	but they were. But this time, right now, we are going to talk about something we have spoken
1:33.0	about on this podcast before, the partition of India and Baghistan in 1947. And you might
1:38.7	remember we did this very good episode with Kavita Puri about this. It was way back in episode 16 of this podcast. Reduce me to tears,
1:46.9	I remember. You did cry. And look, the thing is, though, there is so much to this subject that we
1:52.2	think it merits a revisit, because what we didn't talk about in that wonderful episode with Kavita
	...

Please login to see the full transcript.

Previous episode | Next episode

Disclaimer: The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Goalhanger, and are the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Tapesearch.

Generated transcripts are the property of Goalhanger and are distributed freely under the Fair Use doctrine. Transcripts generated by Tapesearch are not guaranteed to be accurate.