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Bad People

28. Eating Fireballs: Is prison education a good idea?

Bad People

BBC

True Crime

4.41.1K Ratings

🗓️ 27 May 2021

⏱️ 37 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

In 1997 Lyle May murdered a young mother and her son, allegedly after being annoyed by them at a dinner party. He was later convicted of two counts of first-degree murder and is now on North Carolina’s Death Row. Should he be allowed to get a prison education? In this episode of Bad People, Dr Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen discuss the link between prison education and violence and overcoming the self-stigmatisation of inmates. They also speak with Stephen Akpabio-Klementowski, who went to prison in 2002 and is now an Associate Lecturer in Criminology at The Open University. He tells us about life behind bars, the challenges of learning in the noisy environment of a prison and whether rehabilitation and punishment can coexist. Warning: This episode contains strong language and references to murder and suicide. This episode contains archive from BBC Storyville College Behind Bars. Presenters: Julia Shaw and Sofie Hagen Producer: Simona Rata Editor: Rami Tzabar Music: Matt Chandler Bad People is produced in partnership with The Open University and is a BBC Audio Science Production for BBC Sounds #BadPeople_BBC

Transcript

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0:00.0

Hello, Gary Lednika here with Alan Shira and Michael Richards to say the match of the day top 10 podcast is back

0:07.4

We'll be ranking our footballing top 10s and debiting. It was right. Well, it's don't be me. Not a champ, it's Gary

0:14.8

First season wonders to goalkeeping blunders. Nothing is off the table. You had a few blunders in your day. Did you Gary?

0:22.0

Yeah, match of the day top 10. Listen only on BBC sounds

0:26.4

BBC sounds music radio podcasts when I picture people who get university degrees in prison

0:34.2

I have the stereotypical image of a highly intelligent psychopath who wants to game the system like a

0:40.4

Person studying law in order to come up with better grounds of appeal or psychology to learn how to better manipulate people

0:46.5

I basically picture some sort of movie villain sitting in their cubicle in their cell cubicle

0:52.9

It feels the same doesn't it

0:57.1

Yeah, so I was sitting in their cell cubicle whatever

1:01.1

And just studying in order to better be a better criminal basically

1:05.4

But I recently shouted at the thought when I realized when I basically give it two seconds thought and realized that if I ever went to prison

1:11.3

I 100% would do another degree. Yeah, but you don't even have to go to prisons to get another degree

1:16.5

You just have to get stuck in lockdown

1:18.7

You're doing a new degree right now, right? Your masters in queer history. Yes

1:23.4

The only one in the world at Goldsmiths University and at the end of this it means that I won't just be queer

1:28.3

I'll be a master of queer. I think you'll end up having to battle that with Judy Garland

1:33.6

You mean the Elvis of the homosexuals exactly. Yeah, and I'm not alone

1:37.2

I mean you also started higher education during lockdown. You started a course at the open university, right? Yeah

1:42.5

Sounds up. Nothing has really changed since I left school

1:46.0

Essay and I would still rather do anything other than study

1:49.5

Right, and I mean it's so hard to find a quiet space for lessons when you have a dog

...

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