275. Why Higher Calorie Needs May Stack Across Training, Heart Rate v. Feel, Muscle and Liver Glycogen, Treadmill Workouts, and Pacing!
Some Work, All Play
David Roche and Megan Roche
4.8 • 2.1K Ratings
🗓️ 9 September 2025
⏱️ 86 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
We had a shocking change of feelings about shockingly ugly shoes before this amazing episode! The main topic was a pair of studies on energy expenditure and replenishment.
The first was a case study that found massive energy needs beyond base metabolic rate for a full week after an ultra. We zoom out to discuss what that could mean for energy needs during hard training.
The second study examined muscle v. liver glycogen replenishment, highlighting how difficult it can be to stay on top of energy needs. It also featured cod. Cod is a big theme in this episode.
And this one was full of great topics! Other topics: treadmill workouts, an update on the ugly shoe debate from last week, our favorite probiotic and multivitamin, road supershoes for ultras, Tom Evans’ fueling strategy at UTMB, how the use of pacing statistics may change the game, high-dose creatine to counter sleep deprivation, timing of big training weeks before races, heart rate zones v. feel, overcoming injury cycles, our theories for altitude performance, speed v. freshness in workouts, whether the pain cave exists in shorter events, using stairs in training, and lots more.
This one was full of love, laughs, and cod. So much cod.
May we all avoid being in the control group,
-David and Megan
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | Woo! |
| 0:01.6 | Welcome to the Some Work All Play podcast. |
| 0:03.4 | We are so happy to do with you today. Happy Tuesday. It's Tuesday. And we're rolling off some pain cave vibes on this Tuesday. Ooh, pain cave vibes. I know what you're talking about today. We had such a fun weekend. We were up here in the mountains and we're planning this long mountain run on Saturday and woke up to air quality of 160 and then all of a sudden got really excited |
| 0:22.7 | to abandon the mountains and go down to our pancake. Yeah, I feel like a disingenuous trail runner sometimes. |
| 0:27.8 | Same. Because as soon as it was smoky and I realized we could drive down and do our side-by-side |
| 0:33.0 | treadmill workout, I just got giddy. It sounded really fun. I know. I kind of really love the treadmill. And maybe it's because we're like, you know, coming off summer, we spent a lot of time up in the mountains. And in winter, I might feel a little bit differently. But something about this day, I woke up, looked at the smoke and was like, oh, yeah, we get to treadmill today. Well, I got a, I got a bitch check myself because I was a little bitch because I usually like to do my treadmill workouts watching TV. And, you know, we were both doing it together. Wahoo was kind enough to send us an extra treadmill. We paid for our first one. So, you know, we're in this setup. And I was like, I can't take the TV away from Megan. It gives you nothing to listen to because didn't have any headphones. So he put music on the TV. And I had to do my treadmill workout to just basic bitch music. And I'm really proud of myself. And you bitched about it for like 10 minutes before the workout. I mean more like nine minutes. Nine and a half minutes. I'll round up. And I was like, you can do it. You can listen to music and do a |
| 1:28.2 | treadmill workout. How do you actually, though, I feel like it's a good check on treadmill workouts. |
| 1:32.0 | I imagine, like, threshold is probably easy to do to TV. But beyond threshold, I'm like, |
| 1:37.5 | I don't know, I'd rather have music. And we just gets me started, I feel like. Yeah. So we |
| 1:42.1 | screen mirrored my phone playing Spotify onto the TV while we both did workouts. So Megan had my heart rate shining on the screen the entire time. How did that make you feel? Oh, it was fun, actually. Well, usually I see your heart rate, and I just assume it's my heart rate, and it's usually a lot lower than my rate, but your hurry, it was getting high. It was so high. |
| 2:01.5 | It was getting spicy. |
| 2:02.6 | It's a coming back from Leadville, not doing as much heat training recently, not doing as much hot tub. And also just, you know, after these races and across an athletic life, sometimes you just need to kind of hurt a little bit to get back into it. Like the daunting reflection I had while I was doing the workout or trying to do the |
| 2:19.3 | workout because I almost quit was, you know, it's like 19 years of stacking these bricks |
| 2:25.3 | where the body totally wants to not do this. |
| 2:28.9 | And eventually, if you do enough things that your body doesn't want to do, you adapt to |
| 2:33.1 | pretty miraculous places. So I was like, oh, man, I owe it to 18 year old me to just finish this workout. Well, it was 10 by 3 minutes. And you progress. I mean, your heart rate was getting up into like the mid-170s, which is pretty high for you. Very high for me. I mean, before Leadville, that would have been like high zone 5. Yeah at one point on the six interval you just stopped |
| 2:51.6 | the treadmill suddenly and i was like oh no he needed the tv on you really did need the tv and you're |
| 2:56.4 | like i'm just going to go upstairs and go to the bathroom and miraculously you came back down |
| 3:00.1 | and finished the workout did you actually go to the bathroom or did you just want to like |
| 3:03.7 | go up and like sit on the toilet and contemplate existence oh i had sodium b sodium bicarbonate. So I always have the capability to go to the bathroom. Yeah. Like I always got a built an excuse. I sat there and just off gas a little bit. Off gas. No, it's good. I mean, that's actually really relevant. The very first comment when I uploaded the file of Estrada, because the cool thing about these wild trimels, smart trammels, so you can |
| 3:24.4 | actually download the file and put it on, especially for flat workouts. Someone's like, solid workout, |
| 3:30.0 | no punctuation, no capital letters or anything. And I was like, I love this comment because it |
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