Book your ticket to happiness with Sun Express Airlines. And the Black success has very little to do with being black. This new idea of taking it on yourself and driving that is key to success,

counterintuitive to the notions of black success, which is, oh, well, I'm only successful when I've actually beaten racism.

That's when you're defined as successful.

Whereas in fact, what I'm trying to say is that it's when you realize how to be free is actually within yourself.

When you realize your own ages,

that's when you get the success.

Hello, welcome back to the Brendan O'Neill show with me Brendan O'Neill and my special

guest this week, Tony Sewall. Tony, welcome to the show. Great, I mean, thanks for having me and

you know, it's a pleasure to be on.

Spiked has been something I've followed you know over the years and treat me gently though.

Oh, I will. Yeah, well we're fans of yours as well.

We admire your work and and I want to talk to you about your new book, which is a rollicking read.

Your new book is Black Success, The Surprising Truth.

It takes us on all sorts of journeys.

It takes us on a bit of a personal journey from in relation to your life from

Southeast London right through to the House of Lords and and all the good stuff

you've done in between in relation to education and improving the lot of underprivileged kids.

So there's a lot of stuff packed in there from your personal journey as well as of course a lot of social and political observations and questions and issues as well.

So there's a lot to talk about.

I think I wanted to start off by asking you what moved you to write the book because even

the title of it black success stands out in an

era in which we are encouraged to see black people as institutionally oppressed and lacking

...