Book your ticket to happiness with Sun Express Airlines. I'm going to be. It's quite clear that if you allow anybody to identify as a woman and inherit the rights of women,

then you're not going to just make the life easier for

transsexuals. You're going to open it up to anybody and it just stands to reason that.

If you take away the safeguards and cause a safeguarding loophole,

that anybody who is on the lookout for those safeguarding loopholes

is going to, is going to be attracted to it.

And that's what we've seen happen. Self-identification was a complete

an utter disaster.

Hello, welcome back to the Brendan O'Neill show with me Brendan O'Neill and my special

guest this week, Debbie Hayton. Debbie, welcome to the show.

Thank you for having me, Brandon. So Debbie, let's talk about your new book, Transsexual Obstate. It's a great read. The title itself is incredibly

eye- grabbing, I thought. For two reasons, firstly you don't really hear the word

Transsexual very often these days. It's usually transgender and apostate is a very

loaded word suggesting that gender ideology or the gender idea has become something of a religion and if someone backs off from it as you have done,

that makes them an apostate, that makes them someone who's fled the belief system.

So the title of the book I think is very evocative and the book itself tells the story of your own transition, your transition in 2012 and then gender reassignment surgery in 2016 and then your awakening I mean there is a

really good chapter called awakening where you start to ask questions about what

you've gone through gender through, gender identity as an idea.

So that's what the book is about.

It's a really good read.

I really recommend it to listeners.

But I guess I want to start off with a broad question I suppose which is what compelled you to write this book?

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