Welcome to How Leaders Lead where every week you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world.

I break down the key learning so that by the end of the episode, you'll have something simple that you can apply as you develop into a better leader.

That's what this podcast is all about. Today's guest is General

Ray O'Dierno, the former chief of staff of the United States Army, which is the Army's top job.

He retired in 2015 as a four-star general and now does private consulting on minor little

subjects like country risk and cybersecurity.

Honestly, I could fill up a whole hour just introducing this guy.

But there's so much good stuff in this conversation, and I want to get right to it.

Now, listen, it's one thing to talk about trusting a leader in the workplace setting,

but trusting a leader in the military really, but trusting a leader in the military

really goes up a whole other level, where the stakes can literally be life and death.

And boy, after 39 years of military service, through three tours in Iraq, Ray is absolutely

a leader people trust, and he knows how to help others become trustworthy leaders, too.

He believes there are three key qualities of a trustworthy leader, and we're going to dig into each one of these in this incredible conversation.

We're also going to talk about the current division in our country, how to avoid toxic leadership, and so much more.

So here's my conversation with my good friend and soon to ask you, given everything that's been going on lately, you know, you spent years leading our troops in Iraq and fighting terrorism. What went through your mind when you saw the insurrection on our capital? Well, it was one of the most disappointing days of my life. I spent,

since I was 17 years old when I entered West Point, I've spent my life dedicated to

protecting the Constitution of the United States. When I swore in as a cadet at West Point,

when I got promoted every time,

every rank, I took an oath to defend, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States

gets all enemies foreign and domestic. And when I saw that was something I thought I would never see

in this country, and it was incredibly disappointing to me.

...