This episode is brought to you by London Business School and it's a business school I'm

very happy to endorse because Shoshana my wife did an MBA at London Business School. She

found it incredibly useful and actually I've had the pleasure over the years of doing

a certain amount with London Business School too. What this school really does is I think

give you an extraordinary opportunity because it has excellent teaching of critical business

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91% of the 2022 MBA class accepted a job offer within three months of graduating.

So if you're looking to invest in what London Business School would call the career of a lifetime,

the MBA team would love to hear from you. For more information visit London.edu forward slash

MBA that's London.edu forward slash MBA. Welcome to the rest of this politics leading with

me, Rory Stewart. And me, I'm Mr Campbell. And today I've got a real treat, particularly personally

for me, which is that we are interviewing Michael Ignatiif. And Michael is somebody that I first came

across when he was a professor at Harvard University. He had a career which involved both writing very

serious thoughtful work on intervention in the 90s on the Iraqi Kurds on Balkans. He was a fellow

at a Cambridge College. He wrote a wonderful biography of Isaiah Berlin. But I think from the purpose

of the rest of politics leading, his career took a new turn and a turn which really relates to us

when he decided suddenly to leave Harvard University and become a Canadian politician. And in a very,

very remarkable turn of events within a couple of years, he was the leader of the Liberal Party

in Canada, the the natural party of government in Canada for many, many decades, took them initially

to a very commanding position in the polls and then led them into a defeat, an electoral defeat

in which he actually lost his own seat. So he went from the more, I guess, placid life of a Harvard

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