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So Phil, what I hear you saying here is that what you're referring to as mantra is in the more colloquial sense, these oft-repeated phrases, that we find these phrases within Mormonism. You discovered them by leaving regular sacrament meeting attendance for 17 years and then coming back into it, hearing these oft-repeated phrases and realizing how

they really had taken, they do perform the function of mantras in LDS culture to the extent that they are mind tools. They shape our minds, they shape our discourse, they shape our culture.

And you point out that these, rather I guess you raise the question of whether the mantras that we have within LDS culture, within Mormonism, are the best ones that we could have.

And there's a quote here from your essay that I liked. It says, I've heard it said that we, Latter-day Saints, left the sacred grove many years ago.

And have been trapped in a beehive ever since. Our common LDS mantras and the culture they create support external compliance and organizational activity to such a degree that even influential general authorities working hard to promote genuine spiritual growth have minimal impact. Could you elaborate on that statement?

Well, I find it interesting that Mormonism started with a mystical experience of communion with God and a sacred grove. And we've evolved into a culture now where people are afraid to pray too long.

I still have people, when I encourage, in Sonny's school class, when I encourage people to pray long enough to get outside of their mantra prayers, you know, their repetitive phrases to stretch their souls.

And variably, I'll have somebody raise their hand and make reference to Elder Maconkey's talk given during the George Pace episode, where he discouraged lengthy prayer.

And, you know, so we have people that are afraid to even pray beyond kind of their repetitive needs and desires or prayer patterns to where they can even get to a state of communion with spirit.

I gave some example, two examples in the article where I saw Elder Packer and Elder Oaks in particular in areas in which I lived.

Do things to get people outside of focus on just organizational stuff and to root themselves more deeply in genuine spiritual practices and perspectives.

Only to have those overturned just by the organizational culture.

And so, in many ways, we've established a culture that focuses on external worthiness, external religious practice.

And we're just not encouraged much less instructed in how to do the inner spiritual work that leads to rebirth, that leads to transformation, that leads to the unfolding of a Christ-like nature, where we can put aside the negative habits that disrupt our lives and gunk up our relationships and have the ability to acquire the Christ-like nature.

It's the inner work that makes that possible, and we're just not doing much of it.

Well, you use the example of a beehive, and that has been a symbol of Mormonism for a long time.

We've got the carvings of the beehive on many of our buildings in Salt Lake City, and that idea of the, you know, if you look at our LDS meeting houses on Sundays, they certainly do seem like a beehive of activity.

They're very far from being a very serene atmosphere of calm and reflection that you might find in a Buddhist monastery, or so I'd imagine.

And so it seems like what you're saying is we're missing this element, this appreciation for stillness, for silence, for reverence.

And instead, we've become wrapped up in, of pursuing spirituality by becoming as busy as we possibly can with as many activities and programs as possible.

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