#224 Bret Taylor: A Vision for AI’s Next Frontier

The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish

Farnam Street

Business, Investing, Entrepreneurship

4.7 • 2.9K Ratings

🗓️ 15 April 2025

⏱️ 128 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

What happens when one of the most legendary minds in tech delves deep into the real workings of modern AI? A 2-hour long masterclass that you don’t want to miss. Bret Taylor, current chairman of OpenAI, unpacks why AI is transforming software engineering forever, how founders can survive acquisition (he’s done it twice), and why the true bottlenecks in AI aren’t what most think. Drawing on his extensive experiences at Facebook, Google, Twitter and more, he explains why the next phase of AI won’t just be about building better models—it’s about creating entirely new ways for us to work with them. Bret exposes the reality gap between what AI insiders understand and what everyone else believes. Listen now to recalibrate your thinking before your competitors do. (00:02:46) Aha Moments with AI (00:04:43) Founders Working for Founders (00:07:59) Acquisition Process (00:14:14) The Role of a Board (00:17:05) Founder Mode (00:20:29) Engineers as Leaders (00:24:54) Applying First Principles in Business (00:28:43) The Future of Software Engineering (00:35:11) Efficiency and Verification of AI-Generated Code (00:36:46) The Future of Software Development (00:37:24) Defining AGI (00:47:03) AI Self-Improvement? (00:47:58) Safety Measures and Supervision in AI (00:49:47) Benefiting Humanity and AI Safety (00:54:06) Regulation and Geopolitical Landscape in AI (00:55:58) Foundation Models and Frontier Models (01:01:06) Economics and Open Source Models (01:05:18) AI and AGI Accessibility (01:07:42) Optimizing AI Prompts (01:11:18) Creating an AI Superpower (01:14:12) Future of Education and AI (01:19:34) The Impact of AI on Job Roles (01:21:58) AI in Problem-Solving and Research (01:25:24) Importance of AI Context Window (01:27:37) AI Output and Intellectual Property (01:30:09) Google Maps Launch and Challenges (01:37:57) Long-Term Investment in AI (01:43:02) Balancing Work and Family Life (01:44:25) Building Sierra as an Enduring Company (01:45:38) Lessons from Tech Company Lifecycles (01:48:31) Definition and Applications of AI Agents (01:53:56) Challenges and Importance of Branded AI Agents (01:56:28) Fending Off Complacency in Companies (02:01:21) Customer Obsession and Leadership in Companies Bret Taylor is currently the Chairman of OpenAI and CEO of Sierra. Previously, he was the CTO of Facebook, Chairman of the board for X, and the Co-CEO of Salesforce. Newsletter - The Brain Food newsletter delivers actionable insights and thoughtful ideas every Sunday. It takes 5 minutes to read, and it’s completely free. Learn more and sign up at fs.blog/newsletter Upgrade — If you want to hear my thoughts and reflections at the end of the episode, join our membership: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠fs.blog/membership⁠⁠ and get your own private feed. Watch on YouTube: @tkppodcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	Technology companies aren't entitled to their future success.
0:04.0	AI, I think, will change the landscape of software, and I think it will help some companies,
0:09.0	and it will really hurt others.
0:11.0	And so when I think about what it means to build a company that's enduring,
0:15.0	that is a really, really tall task in my mind right now,
0:19.0	because it means not only making something that's
0:22.3	financially enduring over the next 10 years, but setting up a culture where a company can actually
0:28.4	evolve to meet the changing demands of society and technology when it's changing at a pace
0:34.6	that is like unprecedented history. So I think it's one of the most fun business challenges of all time.
0:40.5	I just get so much energy because it's incredibly hard and it's harder now that it's ever been
0:45.3	to do something that lasts beyond you.
0:47.8	But that I think is the ultimate measure of a company.
0:50.3	Welcome to the Knowledge Project podcast. I'm your host, Shane Parrish.
1:02.2	In a world where knowledge is power, this podcast is your toolkit for mastering the best
1:06.8	of what other people have already figured out.
1:11.6	If you want to take your learning the next level,
1:13.6	consider joining our membership program at fs.blog slash membership.
1:17.6	As a member, you'll get my personal reflections at the end of every episode,
1:22.6	early access to episodes, no ads, including this, exclusive content, hand-edited transcripts, and so much
1:29.4	more. Check out the link in the show notes for more. Six months after Brett Taylor realized
1:34.3	AI was about to change everything, he walked away from his co-CEO job at Salesforce to start from
1:40.8	scratch. That's how massive this shift really is.
	...

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