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Welcome to the rest of this politics leading with me, Anastakambal and with me, Rory Stewart.

And we're interviewing today a woman who is here. I have to say something by popular demand.

We've had quite a lot of people saying why don't you get Kate Rayworth on the podcast and

we'll describe you as a renegade economist. I think that's how you describe yourself.

I'll take that. It's a renegade economist who feels that we have to cure ourselves

of the obsession with growth in our economies, who wants us to think of the economy in a completely

different way. She defines it as doughnut economics on which she wrote a book in 2017.

And it's a theory, but it's also a theory that's being practiced in some parts of the world,

particularly at a local level, but I think she would like to see it happening at an international

level. She's an academic at Oxford and at Amsterdam University and she's previously worked in

overseas development at the overseas development institute for the United Nations Development

...