217: How to Talk about Race in Your Classroom

The Cult of Pedagogy Podcast

Jennifer Gonzalez

Education, Teaching, Instruction, Classroommanagement, Educationreform

4.8 • 2.4K Ratings

🗓️ 12 November 2023

⏱️ 49 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Our classrooms have the potential to be spaces where we learn how to have conversations about challenging topics with respect, curiosity, and kindness. Contrary to the voices that say race is not an appropriate topic for school, in this episode we're saying just the opposite. My guests are Matthew Kay, author of the book, Not Light, But Fire: How to Lead Meaningful Race Conversations in the Classroom, and Jennifer Orr, Kay's co-author of the follow-up book, We're Gonna Keep On Talking: How to Lead Meaningful Race Conversations in the Elementary Classroom. I talked with Matt and Jen about the value of discussion as a teaching tool, the elements that are necessary for creating a healthy ecosystem for race conversations, some strategies for having these conversations in organic and authentic ways, and a message for teachers working in states that are hostile to conversations about race.

Thanks to NoRedInk and The Modern Classrooms Project for sponsoring this episode.

You can find links to both books and a full transcript of our conversation at cultofpedagogy.com/pod/.

Transcript

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0:00.0	This is Jennifer Gonzales, welcoming you to episode 217 of the Cult of pedagogy podcast.
0:05.0	In this episode, we will be talking about two books that can help you hold healthy classroom conversations about race. It is the fall of 20.
0:15.0	It is the fall of 2023, a time when discussing race in any classroom in America has
0:29.2	become more of a professional risk than it ever was.
0:33.2	When lawmakers around the country are working hard to stop teachers from having these discussions,
0:38.7	many are afraid to go anywhere near a topic that might even marginally be considered as woke.
0:45.0	But if you happen to live in a place where conversations about race are allowed or even encouraged
0:49.7	in school, or if you've decided that it is worth it to try despite the risk, I'm here to
0:55.6	recommend two books that will be incredibly helpful companions in that work.
1:00.3	The first book is called Not Light, but Fire,
1:02.8	How to Lead Meaningful Race Conversations in the Classroom.
1:06.3	It was written in 2018 by Philadelphia High School English Teacher, Matthew K
1:11.3	and he based it on his experiences having these conversations with his own students.
1:16.0	A few years later, he teamed up with elementary teacher Jennifer Orr to write a follow-up book for elementary classrooms
1:23.4	called We're Gonna Keep on Talking
1:25.4	How to Lead Meaning Meaningful Race Conversations
1:27.5	in the Elementary Classroom.
1:29.6	What I love about both books
1:31.2	is that their approach to these conversations is really thoughtful.
1:35.3	They do not offer a bag of tricks you can pick from to try out every now and then.
1:40.4	The first half of each book is devoted to setting the stage, building a classroom ecosystem made of trusting relationships, practice with interpersonal skills, and carefully structured discourse.
1:52.0	In the second half, the books offer case studies of real classroom conversations
	...

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