212. Jordan Peterson, God, and Christianity with Word on Fire

The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast

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Education, Science, Society & Culture

4.6 • 34.5K Ratings

🗓️ 27 December 2021

⏱️ 126 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

This episode was recorded on September 6, 2021. Dr. Christopher Kaczor, Dr. Matthew Petrusek, and I discuss their new book “Jordan Peterson, God, and Christianity”—the first systematic analysis of 12 Rules for Life and my biblical series from a Christian perspective. We also cover—just to name a few—truth in fiction, time before consciousness, faith, evolution, love, and acting as if God exists. Dr. Christopher Kaczor is a Professor of Philosophy at Loyola Marymount University. He was appointed a Corresponding Member of the Pontifical Academy for Life of Vatican City, is a fellow of the Word on Fire Institute, and won a Templeton Grant for his work. He has written many scholarly articles and books. Dr. Matthew R. Petrusek is an associate professor at Loyola Marymount University in LA. He holds an MA from Yale and a PhD from the University of Chicago. Dr. Petrusek specializes in Christian ethics and moral theology and lectures on a range of topics surrounding philosophy, theology, and Catholicism. Find more Dr. Christopher Kaczor on Twitter @Prof_Kaczor: https://twitter.com/prof_kaczor And more Dr. Matthew Petrusek @MattPetrusek: https://twitter.com/MattPetrusek Get their book at https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B095J3SB9M/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_hsch_vapi_tkin_p1_i0 [00:00] Intro [02:26] The motivation behind "Jordan Peterson, God, and Christianity" [09:34] Genesis, the literal sense in scripture and the truth in fiction [10:21] "The Atheist types miss that fiction isn't false" Jordan Peterson [11:45] "A story that can change your life has a power that is best described as religious" JP [12:23] Truth in fiction and religious text [14:00] "I think truth is broader [than the empirically verifiable]" [18:44] The problem with the empirical approach and replacing God [22:07] "[When] Ceasar becomes inflated to God, all hell breaks loose" JP [22:35] "If we don't segregate off the religious instinct and give it its proper attention, [everything] starts becoming inappropriately contaminated with religious longing. That's why you see [division and] the rise in powerful political ideologies" JP [23:32] On the perversion of the religious instinct [25:41] The Bible's warning in Noah and the tower of Babel [30:43] Time before consciousness [36:43] "Matter at the quantum level makes it difficult to think of a universe without conscious observers" JP [40:45] Are science and religion at odds? [44:00] Dr. Petrusek on science/religion [46:31] On Faith [54:52] Imitating the spirit of the Father [54:56] "You can conceptualize Christ as the representation of all things admirable." JP [57:53] "Faith is the willingness to act that out in the world" JP [01:00:27] Why we must strive to be good [01:01:12] "I am loved and I wish to love, and I recognize that I will fail time and time again" Matthew Petrusek [01:05:26] Evolution and religion [01:11:09] The creation of the universe [01:11:36] The church and Dr. Peterson's popularity [01:15:41] "Faith cannot oppose reason" MP [01:16:48] The challenge of drawing younger people to church [01:33:31] Acting as if God exists [01:36:37] "Your life isn’t about you and your own thoughts" MP [01:39::46] "When people fall in love with one another, they see the perfection that could conceivably exist. It's like the curtains of illusion pull apart momentarily, and you see the paradisal state that could be there" JP [01:40:10] God's love and the love between a parent and a child [01:43:07] How to treat those we love [01:43:29] "The more love you view other people with, the higher the moral demand that’s placed on you" JP [01:44:25] “I think there’s too much moral authority in the church" JP [01:43:39] The ten commandments; the moral load of sin [01:49:25] Understanding hell [01:55:22] More on Word on Fire [01:58:04] The Exodus lectures #Christianity #Evolution #Meaning #God #Faith

Transcript

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0:00.0	Welcome to the JBP Podcast season 4 episode 69. I'm Michaela Peterson.
0:06.0	There's this new book titled Jordan Peterson, God and Christianity, The Search for a Meaningful Life.
0:12.0	The authors are today's guests, Christopher Cazer and Matthew R. Petrusak.
0:18.0	And their book is the first systematic analysis of 12 Rules for Life and Dad's Biblical Series from a Christian perspective.
0:26.0	In this episode, you'll hear a lot about meaning and suffering, truth and fiction, time before consciousness, evolution, religion, acting ethically and hell.
0:38.0	Dr. Cazer is a professor of philosophy at Loyola Mariment University and, like our other guests, Dr. Petrusak, he's a fellow at the Word on Fire Institute.
0:49.0	Dr. Cazer has won a Templeton grant. He's written many scholarly articles and books. He's a full-bright scholar who holds a PhD from the University of Notre Dame.
0:59.0	Dr. Matthew R. Petrusak is an associate professor at Loyola Mariment University in ILA, who holds a Master's from Yale and a PhD from the University of Chicago.
1:10.0	Even though Dr. Petrusak specializes in Christian ethics and moral theology, he gives lectures on a range of interesting topics related to philosophy, theology and the Catholic intellectual tradition.
1:21.0	I hope you enjoyed today's episode.
1:42.0	Hello everyone. I'm pleased to have with me today Dr. Christopher Cazer and Dr. Matthew Petrusak. They're both working at Loyola Mariment University and they recently co-authored a book called Jordan Peterson God and Christianity, the search for a meaningful life, which is definitely a title that I would never have imagined existing.
2:09.0	So I decided to talk to them today to see what sort of useful discussion we might have about that book, but about Christian issues, more broadly religious issues, more broadly cultural issues.
2:26.0	Dr. Cazer is a professor of philosophy and a fellow of the Word on Fire Institute, which we'll discuss a little later. He graduated from the honors program of Boston College and earned his PhD four years later from the University of Notre Dame.
2:42.0	He was a full-bright scholar who did postdoctoral work as an Alexander von Humboldt German Chancellor Fellow at the University of Cologne.
2:51.0	He was appointed a corresponding member of the Pontifical Academy for Life of Vatican City and William E. Simon visiting fellow in the James Madison program at Princeton University.
3:04.0	The winner of a Templeton grant, Templeton funds research into the intersection between religion and science among other things. He's written more than 100 scholarly articles and book chapters and is also the author of 16 books, including the one that I mentioned earlier.
3:20.0	Peter Patrusek received his MA in religious ethics from Yale and a PhD in the same field from the University of Chicago. He is currently associate professor of theological ethics and serves as a Word on Fire Institute Fellow as well.
3:36.0	In addition to numerous articles, he has authored co-authored and co-edited several books. He's bilingual, English, Spanish, and lectures broadly on topics in ethics, the Catholic intellectual tradition, and the intersection between Christian theology and philosophy.
3:52.0	So welcome gentlemen. Thank you very much for agreeing to speak with me today and for your careful work as well.
4:01.0	So I guess I'd like to start by asking you, as I mentioned in the intro, I never had really envisioned being included in a book like the one that you just wrote.
4:17.0	And I have noted that a variety of religious thinkers have commented on my lectures and work and I'm wondering why you felt compelled to put all the time and effort into this.
4:33.0	I mean, it's a major undertaking to write a book. And so why this book? What's the motivation?
	...

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