I think that's bullshit. Like, I don't think that's true for a variety of reasons. You know,

first, SaaS businesses are far more than just the software that they create. In fact, if you're,

if you have a SaaS business and your only differentiation is I've written all this code and

nobody else can do, then you're probably, your days are numbered. The expectation of when would

the GPT5 scale models arrive. I now think that those are further away. You've sort of seen Sam Altman

and others change their tune to talk about reasoning and things like that as the progress. And my sense

is there are actually some architectural problems. So it's possible there's a year or two in which

these things are stuck. This is 20 product with me, Harry Stebbings. Now, today we are joined by one of

the best product

leaders. He founded and scaled sneak to being a $7.4 billion company. Now he's back with his new

company, Tesla, which he's already raised $125 million for at a $750 million valuation from the

likes of GV, index and bold start.

But before we dive into the show today, how do you get your users to do what you want

them to do?

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So check out their amazing free product today on pendo.io, forward slash 20 product. That's pendo.io

forward slash two zero product hyphen podcast. And talking about AI, Glean is the leading work

AI platform that transforms how teams operate. So this is how it does it.

AI has the potential to help everyone at work with nearly everything they do, but only if it

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