#201 April Dunford: The Marketing Expert
The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish
Farnam Street
4.7 • 2.9K Ratings
🗓️ 20 August 2024
⏱️ 75 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
Former IBM executive April Dunford reveals the sophisticated frameworks behind market leadership. This isn't about marketing tactics but how category leaders reshape markets to their advantage.
Drawing from decades of experience, Dunford shares the nuanced art of market definition, competitive positioning, and strategic narrative. These are essential insights for leaders who understand that winning isn't about being better—it's about being different in meaningful ways.
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Timestamps:
(00:00) Intro
(02:07) Positioning, explained
(16:47) Why is positioning important?
(20:40) B2B vs. B2C positioning
(29:03) When re-positioning a product failed
(32:31) How to identify customer's pain points
(34:35) How to position a product on a sales page
(38:06) How technology has changed positioning
(41:40) How to evaluate product positioning
(45:43) Who's in charge of positioning at a company?
(50:27) On storytelling
(56:35) Should a company have a point of view on the market?
(1:00:21) Dealing with gatekeepers in B2B marketing
(1:03:02) Mistakes people make with positioning
(1:05:21) What schools get wrong about marketing
(1:08:59) Secrets of B2B decision-making
(1:11:18) On success
Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | So you can't tell just using, you know, what I would call the grandmother test. |
| 0:04.8 | You know, would your grandmother understand this? |
| 0:06.6 | Well, unless you're selling a grandmothers, it doesn't matter if the grandmother understands it. |
| 0:10.5 | So some people will say, well, we need to dumb this down and we need to have it so that anybody understands it. |
| 0:15.0 | I super disagree with that in B2B. |
| 0:17.5 | If I'm selling a specialized thing to specialize buyers, it just needs to resonate with |
| 0:22.2 | them. It's okay if it doesn't resonate with your grandmother. |
| 0:41.0 | Welcome to the Knowledge Project. |
| 0:42.8 | I'm your host, Shane Parrish. |
| 0:48.7 | In a world where knowledge is power, this podcast is your toolkit for mastering the best of what other people have already figured out. |
| 0:51.7 | If you're listening to this, it means you're not a supporting member. |
| 0:55.0 | Members get early access to episodes, my personal reflections at the end of episodes, which a lot of people say is quickly becoming their favorite part, |
| 0:59.5 | no ads, exclusive content, hand edited transcripts, and so much more. Check out the link in the show |
| 1:05.5 | notes for more information. My guest today is April Dunford. Her book, obviously awesome, totally changed how I think about positioning when it comes to business. |
| 1:15.3 | This interview originally aired as a member's only episode, but I had so many requests for members to share it with their team at work that I decided to make it public so everyone can benefit. |
| 1:26.3 | April is an expert in product positioning, |
| 1:28.6 | and this episode goes from high level to very detailed examples. We discuss the critical role |
| 1:34.4 | of positioning as a strategic approach, not just a marketing exercise, capable of totally |
| 1:39.9 | transforming a product's trajectory. April illustrates this with the example of labeling a muffin, |
| 1:45.0 | a muffin, and not a cake, demonstrating how effective positioning can shift perceptions and drive sales. |
| 1:50.9 | If you're interested in getting more sales, loyal customers, and bigger promotions, |
| 1:54.3 | this episode is for you. It's time to listen and learn. |
... |
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