This is CBS I in the World. I'm John Bats with Enato Leeman, the Quincy Institute for

Responsible Statecraft, speaking of Ukraine conflict, and the rich canvas that is central

in Eastern Europe. We started with Georgia and the details of the incident in 2008 that

was presented here in the United States as a straight-up invasion by Vladimir Putin,

the Medvedev and the Russian forces, overwhelming the beleaguered small state of Georgia, which

at that time was not a candidate or perhaps was only thinking of being a candidate for

NATO and the EU. Now we speak to the much larger and obviously more threatening story of

Ukraine and the same mix of nationalism and ethnic origins and language speaking and attachment

to tradition and also to family members in Ukraine. And Anatoly, you make the point that

one way of observing this is that the EU and NATO, but mostly the EU, have to come to terms

with what the great expectation of liberal Europeans when it takes into account the Eastern

and Central European states that live with a long memory of nationalism. You'd identify

Latvia and Poland. We can add into that Hungary and Romania, perhaps Bulgaria. All these states

have a different understanding of what is correct, what culture is correct at odds with the,

what we'd have to say is constant advancing of tolerance in Western Europe. This would

also be a problem in Ukraine. Is that correct? Anticipating the golden day when Ukraine could

be knitted into the EU, it would also struggle with nationalism and cultural discord?

Well, yes, that's right. I mean, that said, of course, nationalism has also been growing

in Western Europe as well. If you look at the rise of right-wing nationalist parties,

even for somebody of our generation, I think almost unbelievably in Sweden, for example.

But certainly, among people in Brussels who I talk to, there is a good deal of concern

about the huge problems that Polish and Hungarian nationalism under the Justice Party in Poland

...