This is CBS I'm the World I'm John Batshu with my colleague,

editor, Leven of the Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft,

writing with his colleague, George Beebe, about

Procution, the head of the Wagner Group, the man who is

outspoken almost daily now about what is wrong in Russia,

why Russia has failed in the Ukraine more.

Need to meet the opponents, however, because they also have a

place in the future of Russian government.

Mr. Shoggo is the defense minister and has said to be very close with Vladimir

Putin, I can remember before the war, the two were

tromping off in the Siberian woods together, dropping out of airplanes or doing

something, um, vivid.

A Gerasimov is unknown to me, but he is the general chief of staff, so

clearly a man with great skills. And one more,

Ramon Kadeirov, the head of the Chechen warlord,

the head Chechen warlord, head of his own private army,

these three men, which one of them is Pagosin's opposite,

what Pagosin did worry about most in terms of being another warlord.

Pagosin's got his private army. Kadeirov has his private army.

Does Shoggo have a private army?

No, I mean Shoggo and Gerasimov.

If you can say that, the Russian army, but that is not their

...