This is CBSI on the world.

I'm John Baxter discussing Ukraine and the European fragility in general with Anatol,

even the Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft.

NATO.

NATO guarantees the members will be defended by the collective if attacked.

That makes it extremely desirable to members of the Europe continent

in the event that there is Russian aggression, especially Ukraine.

And Mr. Zelensky has repeatedly mentioned that membership is vital for him to come to the

negotiation table.

At the same time, I believe the voices of the Kremlin have said,

that's not negotiable, it will not happen.

Where are we on the NATO membership?

They play with it as if it's a large toy.

Well, yes.

And I mean, the thing is, which is not, I think, noticed often enough is that this isn't up to Ukraine and it's not up to the United States.

You need unanimity among NATO members to accept a new member.

Hungary will veto.

It now looks if the Ukrainian nationalist opposition wins that Romania would

veto. Turkey will veto. And if, as now looks entirely possible, Le Pen becomes president of France,

France is likely to veto. So this is not actually going to happen.

Of course, like Russia's demand that Ukraine withdraw from these four provinces, you know, this can be

an initial bargaining counter. And indeed, I mean, there are, you know, this can be an initial bargaining counter. And indeed, I mean, there are,

...