This is CBSI in the world. I'm John Batcher. Our conversation with Enato Leven of the

Quincy Institute for a responsible statecraft, looking at the weeks before the very important

meeting of NATO in July, in the Baltic States, in Vilnius, for a gathering of eagles watching

the Ukraine conflict. The long-promised offensive is underway, and NATO is supporting

Ukraine entirely. So what does that mean about NATO and its long-term prospects for holding

together? To Poland, Enato Leven, you've mentioned it several times in your remarks. In

conversation with Judy Demsie, the editor-in-chief of Strategic Europe, that's the Carnegie

and Domative International Peace. In Berlin, I learned that many voices, Polish voices,

and voices across the EU have profound doubts about what the support for the League for

the Law and Justice Party governing Poland means for the rest of the EU. Poland, on the

other hand, is very confident in its position in NATO. Poland right now is looking for the

summertime conference to pour weapons and money and enormous amounts of support into

Poland to become the bulwark against the Russian Federation for the balance of this century.

The question raised is, what are we supporting? And right now, I'm told by Judy Demsie and

her colleagues that there's such a thing as a Russian influence commission going on in

Warsaw, which, according to the anecdotes I heard, reminds of McCarthyism, accusing

everyone of being a Russian agent or a sympathetic or fellow traveler, the language of the communist

witch hunt of the 1950s in America. Poland then is a trouble for many parts of the EU.

What is to be done in Anatole? Have you heard good ideas going forward?

What is to be done is really not at all clear that something has to be done. I think

is clear because what the Polish government is getting up to, if you're accusing everybody

of being a Russian stooge, it would be, it would almost be better, but what it is doing,

...