I'm John Bachelor with my colleague Professor Richard Epstein of the Hoover Institution,

teaching law at NYU and the University of Chicago.

Tariffs. I don't think you're a fan, Richard.

Look, I'm a classical economist on this point,

and essentially what happens is the great objective of international trade is to make

sure that its trade goes back and forth across national borders where people have the right to exclude,

it moves as smoothly as it does within a given jurisdiction. Tariffs are, in fact, a real danger with

respect to that. There's another danger, which is too much subsidy for foreign goods.

So essentially, the correct position, which is used inside the United States,

it's kind of have a non-discrimination provision,

which says if goods that are coming into the United States

will be subject to the same taxes and regulations as good manufactured in the United States

when they're both aimed at the same consumer or producer market. And if you do all of that,

you just don't raise these things very hard, and you will then, in effect, create a larger economy

for yourself. And as you improve the kinds of goods that you get through imports,

what you do is you can improve your position in the export market because now what you can do is sell better products at a lower price

given the fact that you have these foreign inputs.

There is a kind of a misunderstanding understanding in the United States

about how markets are organized.

So the common understanding says, oh, steel is a very powerful market.

And so it is.

But if you're trying to build a certain kind of equipment, and it turns out that there's only

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