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offer ends December 3rd, 2023. Open to UK and N.I. Guardian. I'm John Bachelor with John Urbstow, the Atlantic Council, he's senior director of the

Eurasian Center, former diplomat Ukraine, served in Ukraine Ukraine served in Uzbekistan and served in Jerusalem

as Council General we're speaking of right now why continue to support Kief

after the disappointment of the spring offensive, after the questions

raised about the casualty rates and overwhelming poverty and tragedy of

Ukrainian people, why continue to support it? The word corruption comes up

routinely John and the word corruption speaks to the oligarchs that existed

before 2014 that existed after 2014 that exists today, although their bank accounts aren't

as big as they used to be.

How do we answer the charges of corruption that come from many political voices in the US John?

Okay, I would call this the great of corruption caper, and I'll explain that.

And this comes back to the way you introduce this subject.

Our assistance to Ukraine is based upon American national interest because Putin is pursuing a policy designed to undermine our security and our prosperity.

It is not simply philanthropy for Ukraine.

If you understand that, then our assistance to Ukraine is warranted,

even if there is a problem of corruption in Ukraine.

...