The following is a conversation with Jocco Willink, a retired US Navy SEAL co-author of

Extreme Ownership, Dacotomy of Leadership, Discipline Equals Freedom, and many other excellent books.

And he's the host of Jocco Podcast. Jocco spent 20 years in the SEAL teams. He was the commander

of SEAL team 3's Task Unit Bruser that became the most highly decorated special operations unit

of the Iraq War. This conversation was intense and to the point. We agreed to talk again,

probably many times, and when I find very interesting, aside from the talk of leadership,

is the conversation about military tactics of specific battles in history.

Quick mention of our sponsors, Linode, Indeed, Simple Safe, and Ground News. Check them out in the

description to support this podcast. Since it's the 4th of July, a holiday in the United States,

let me say a few words about what this country, my country, the United States of America means to me.

First, by way of background, I was born and raised in the Soviet Union just long enough to get

a bit of the Russian soul, an appreciation of Soviet history, music, culture, of resting

in mathematics, of engineering and philosophy, stoicism and humor, tragedies, and triumphs of

war and revolutions, all in ways that are uniquely Russian. I do happen to at times mention that I'm

Russian. This is what I mean, that I got a bit of that Russian soul. But of course, who I really

am is an American. This country gave me the opportunity, the freedom to become, and to be who I am,

to stand as an individual. This seemingly simple freedom to be a sovereign human being in the face of

all the beauty and cruelty of life is why I love this country. Much of life can be unfair, unjust,

even tragic. But this is the country where if I'm clever enough, or card enough, just get lucky enough,

have a chance to dream big and make my dream a reality. The United States welcomed me,

my family, and millions of immigrants throughout its history so that we can make something meaningful

of ourselves, to love, to dream, to create, to find joy and meaning. It lets me be the weird kid I am,

...