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Hello and welcome to the Grenfell Tower Inquiry podcast with me, Kate Lamble.

This week, a civil servant said there were a number of occasions when he could have

prevented the Grenfell Tower fire from happening. And almost five years on from Grenfell,

politicians have appeared for the first time to explain their decisions and policies.

Even if you regulate, even if government puts in regulations, it won't necessarily stop what would colloquially be referred to as cowboys offering services that are not good enough.

I didn't always get the full picture of concerns that were raised or issues that were raised in areas for which I had responsibility presented to me.

Before we get into the ministers in detail, I want to start with Brian Martin, who returned to complete his evidence.

A principal construction professional in the Department for Communities and Local Government,

he was the civil servant responsible for building regulation guidance related to fire safety.

Brian Martin has been described by one lawyer for the bereaved survivors and residents

as the key figure in government. In all, he spent more than seven days giving evidence

more than any other witness. You can hear what he said so far in episodes 188 and 189 of this podcast.

This week, the inquiry once again went through a number of events

which could have served as warnings about the dangers of combustible cladding

and the regulations which governed them.

In July 2009, there was a fire at a 14-storey block in South London

called Lacknell House. Six people died. Two weeks later, the building research establishment,

who'd been asked to investigate, produced an initial report for government. They found the

flames had spread across the external wall of the building, travelling first upwards, then down, starting fires in the flats below as burning material fell from the building.

The report also found the fire had spread through burning droplets, although the source of those droplets remained under consideration.

Brian Martin described the Lacknell fire as a very complex incident, but at the time he thought

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