Hi, I'm Stella O'Malley, a psychotherapist in Ireland.

And I'm Sasha Ayyad, an adolescent therapist in the United States.

And this is Gender, a wider lens, a podcast dedicated to the shifting concepts around gender in our contemporary culture.

Through in-depth interviews, personal stories, and psychological exploration, we seek to open up the discourse around this hot button issue.

Join us as we look at gender from a wider lens.

Hey Stella.

How's it going Sasha? How are you? I'm doing well. It was a very fun and very different kind of episode today.

We did something special with Jennifer Say. Should I tell people about it?

Yes, our world premiere of gender wider lens.

Into uncharted territory.

Yes, so Jennifer Say is somebody who spent over 23 years in the world of advertising

for Levi's and she held a variety of leadership positions. So she's like a big person in the world of advertising, okay?

And we wanted to have her come on to analyze some ads with us that have trans themes and mastectomy scars and blue hair gender people and it was absolutely

fascinating to kind of in real time throw an ad up on the screen. All three of us

looked at it together and Jennifer helped us understand what were the

advertisers intending with this or that image.

And so if you are listening on podcast,

today I would really recommend to go to YouTube

and check it out, though we did do our best

to describe the images that we were seeing for our podcast listeners who don't have that

visual. So this is huge. We've never done anything like this before and it was very enlightening.

I was really glad we did it because I was aware of these ads. I was aware of the

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