PANEL: The Three Simultaneously True Levels of Nondual Reality; Don't Mistake Understanding for Realization, Don't Mistake Realization for Liberation. Reports of spiritual awakenings, once rare, have become commonplace. Modern seekers often find an intuitive understanding of the ultimate non-dual reality or the illusory nature of the world to be so liberating that they conclude they have reached the goal, and that seeking should be renounced. Ancient traditions caution that such an understanding may be merely a preliminary stage of development. Moreover, an experiential realization, beyond the merely conceptual, may feel so complete that one might conclude that "This is it". Some insist that once the non-dual nature of the Self is realized, one has arrived, and it is meaningless to speak of further degrees of growth or levels of realization. Others hold that Self-realization is an important milestone, but that spiritual development never ends. Can we reconcile the injunction to live in the present moment with the understanding that there is much development yet to undergo? Are there criteria by which Enlightenment can be measured or certified? John Hagelin, Ph.D., is a world-renowned quantum physicist, educator, public policy expert, and leading proponent of peace. Dr. Hagelin received his A.B. summa cum laude from Dartmouth College and his M.A. and Ph.D. from Harvard University and conducted pioneering research at CERN (the European Center for Particle Physics) and SLAC (the Stanford Linear Accelerator Center). His scientific contributions in the fields of electroweak unification, grand unification, super-symmetry, and cosmology include some of the most cited references in the physical sciences. He is also responsible for the development of a highly successful Grand Unified Field Theory based on the Superstring. But Dr. Hagelin is unique among scientists in being the first to apply this most advanced knowledge for the practical benefit of humankind. He has pioneered the use of Unified Field-based technologies proven to reduce crime, violence, terrorism, and war and to promote peace throughout society—technologies derived from the ancient Vedic science of consciousness. hagelin.org Maharishi International University David Lynch Foundation BatGap interview with Dr. Hagelin Igor Kufayev Website: igorkufayev.com Wikipedia page Other BatGap events with Igor Kufayev: Igor Kufayev with David Loy Igor Kufayev with Jac O’Keeffe, and Francis Bennett Igor Kufayev, in Panel Discussion on Kashmir Shaivism Mark McCooey is a businessman and has been a teacher of Transcendental Meditation for over 30 years. He and his family live in Vancouver, Canada. Recorded at the Science and Nonduality Conference, 10/28/2012, San Rafael, California. Video and audio below. Audio also available as a Podcast. Transcript of this discussion YouTube Video Chapters: 00:00:00 - Introduction and Purpose of the Presentation 00:02:10 - Dr. Hagelin's Background and Contributions 00:04:02 - Non-dual Being and Development 00:05:49 - The Physiology of Enlightenment 00:07:22 - The Three Components of Reality 00:10:09 - The Distinctive State of Experience 00:12:58 - The Paradox of Perfection and Addressing the World's Problems 00:14:31 - Mistaking Intellectual Understanding 00:16:40 - The Tricky Nature of Language and Knowledge 00:18:55 - The Gradual Transition to Expanded Awareness 00:20:56 - The Three States of Consciousness 00:22:58 - Realizing the Nature of the Self 00:24:46 - The Experience of Life and Universal Consciousness 00:26:25 - Resonating with the Universal Being 00:27:43 - The State of Consciousness in Sleep and Anesthesia 00:29:00 - The Adventure Begins 00:30:38 - The Ocean's Self-Sufficiency 00:31:57 - Reverence for the Fine Structure of Nature 00:33:26 - The Ocean Moving the Wave 00:35:23 - The Tricky State of Self-Realization