What are you been up to?

You're a busy guy.

Well, yeah, I mean, I guess I've been sort of like talking about this book a lot, but also looking for the next big stories in this whole weird hacker world yeah it's uh it's always a

fun for me to talk to people like yourself who are like established real like big time journalists

you know i'm very used to i'm used to talking to like the small time like independent youtube

journalists i mean i've heard the people you have on, like these, these sort of independent

YouTube journalists are often like digging up the most interesting stuff and like doing

the craziest adventures.

So, you know, I'm, I feel, I don't know, kind of lucky that I have like a pretty established

establishment media job, but I still get to go on these weird, down these strange rabbit

holes and, you know,

take time to do investigations and books every few years.

What got you interested initially in this whole like crypto dark web hacker world?

Yeah, let's see.

I mean, I have covered this world of cybersecurity and hackers and

surveillance and the dark web and all of that for, I mean, before the dark web even existed since

2007 or so. And I don't know, I came to it in this weird way of, I, I like had tried to be a

China journalist, and then I went to journalism school, and I found that in journalism school, it's hard to find stories because you're like just in school.

You're not, like, out in the world.

So I sort of turned to the internet instead.

And I don't know, I'm just like, I've always been like the kind of reporter, I think, who like looks for like for, like, weird and geeky and, like, strange underworld

kind of stories anyway, so that worked out for me and I got a job at Forbes magazine. Then a few years

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