#1676 American Presidents and the Press

Listening to America

History, Politics, Unitedstates, Society & Culture, American

4.6 • 1.1K Ratings

🗓️ 4 November 2025

⏱️ 59 minutes

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Summary

Clay and his popular guest, Lindsay Chervinsky, discuss the history of American presidents and the fourth estate. Almost all presidents are frustrated by a free press, and some have attempted to censor it. Beginning with George Washington (who was thin-skinned but did not strike out at the opposition), through Adams and Jefferson, and all the way to Richard Nixon, the First Amendment has been a casualty of real or perceived national and international crises. The Sedition Act of 1798 and the Espionage Act of 1918 have much in common. Thomas Jefferson, as usual, said all the right things about the importance of a free press, but he also encouraged the governor of Pennsylvania to undertake a few wholesome prosecutions of the most vitriolic Federalist newspapers. Generally speaking, after periods of censorship during national security crises, the pendulum swings back to the center. This program aims to provide historical context and clarity amid our own First Amendment crisis. This episode was recorded on October 17, 2025.

Transcript

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0:00.0	Hello everyone, it's Clay Jenkinson. My introduction to this week's podcast, Lindsay
0:05.2	Chervinsky is back. My dear friend, Dr. Lindsay Chervinsky, so much in demand these days.
0:12.6	It's hard to get on our calendar. We're doing it as often as we can. Almost the number one thing
0:17.4	people say to me around the country is, more Lindsay, more Lindsay. I try not to take that personally. More Lindsay, more Lindsay. And I agree. We have such fun together. And I wish you could see it. I wish we had a little ditto cam. So you could see her choking, sneering, gagging, rolling her eyes and all the other things she does when I try to defend for Mr. Jefferson. But that's all right. Anyway, we agree on
0:39.8	almost everything, it turns out, but it's fun to spar with her, at least in a playful way.
0:44.7	This is really an important program, I think. We're talking about the First Amendment and its
0:49.3	weaknesses. So the point I made in the program at some point is whenever we're in a real or
0:56.4	perceived national security emergency, World War I, the Civil War, the quasi war of 1798, which
1:04.9	led to the alien and sedition laws, whenever we're in a period of real or perceived national
1:10.1	emergency, the First Amendment suffers.
1:13.6	And we eroded.
1:16.1	Normally, after things calm down, when the French do not invade in 1798, when the communists do not try to take over in 1917, when the Japanese are not a threat to the country in World War II.
1:32.5	Normally, when the crisis ends, there's a return.
1:36.0	The pendulum moves back towards a greater adherence to the Bill of Rights in the First Amendment.
1:43.8	But it doesn't always go fully
1:45.9	back. So take 9-11, there was some serious erosion of freedom of expression after 9-11.
1:54.5	And almost immediately after that catastrophe, the Patriot Act was trotted out a huge piece of legislation.
2:02.2	That wasn't written in two days.
2:04.5	That legislation was sitting on a shelf waiting for its moment, and the Patriot Act is still in effect.
2:11.4	Maybe the worst case is the Insurrection Act, which occurred during Jefferson's second term when we were in a, not a war, but we were
2:19.8	in a war scare over impressment of sailors by the British attacks on our free shipping.
2:28.1	Both the French and the British were discriminating against American trade because they
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